David Richard/Richards of Strygosfawr, Lledrod.

[Viking666]

Further to the naming of family members.
 In the 1727 will of Richard David, we see that he had 5 sons and a daughter, named as follows.
David, William, Lewis, Thomas and Edward. The daughter is Jane. Any of the sons could have had a son named David and he would have been the father of John, James, Edward and Jane of Bryn Issaf, (with Edward and Jane being family names).
We have a Request regarding the death of David Richard, dated 1775, Ystradmeurig, naming his brother Lewis as executor and here we see the circa demise-date of the family of Richard David.
The will of Thomas Davies shows Richard David at Tythin Strygos as under-tenant, (as you pointed out). Another property mentioned is Pontargamddwr ... that place is close to Ynys Perfedd. There are other properties mentioned but have probably disappeared now. (I have a photo showing the present-day Strygos as a total ruin).
 The link between Thomas Davies and a further link between Jane and Owen Davies also strengthens the probability of this hypotheses.
  Auction day today. Hurray!
                                      regards from Peter.

[Viking666]

I think it worthwhile having another look at this Indenture in the light of the new hypotheses.

D.D. 1460. Indenture, dated 1 Aug. 1769, being a lease for a year (so that a grant by release might be made) from David Richards of Strygosfawr in the parish of Lledrod, CO. Cardigan, gent, (son and heir of Thomas Richards of the same place, gent., deceased by Magdalen his wife) to James Lloyd of Mabus, co. Cardigan, esq., of messuages and lands in the said parish of Lledrod, called Strygos otherwise Strygos- fawr, and Twyn y rhose, and late in the tenures of Magdalen Richards, David Richards, Richard David and Thomas Jones.

 Having read the will of Richard David it looks as if he died before his time. (Wife is Magdalen).There is no mention of any relatives other than his sons and daughter. This family closely mirrors what we did with the family of the Rev. Morgan Richards; (he died prematurely too when his children were minors). With Richard David dying in 1727, that indenture now reads as if the David Richards mentioned is the son of Thomas, the son of Richard David. This looks like an example of naming within the family that I referred to earlier, notwithstanding that other's may have also named their children David.
Dating the ages is, as usual, fraught with danger but has to be done.

Thomas and David are deceased by 1775 and, as I said earlier, this is the demise area for the children of Richard David. (An example of this - the 3 brothers, Rev. Edward, D1832, Rev. John, D 1833 and James, D1836).
We can pencil in Richard David, born C1680, his son Thomas born C1710, and his son David, born C1735, his children Edward, John, James and Jane being born 1758-1766.
We did the same with David of Ffos ... a David, with a brother, Thomas, at Bryn Issaf.
  Your thought please.         
                                     Regards from Peter.

[despair]

While feasible,I think your hypothesis might require a switch from patronymic naming to "surname naming"(i.e Richard David's son is Thomas Richard(s),but Thomas Richards son is David Richards not David Thomas),but it is difficult to be certain.I think I will wait to see if the Shirley Martin article reveals anything.

Regards
Roger

[despair]

A slight aside,but while I came across the data,I thought it best to record it for you.A reasonable amount comes from the Lledrod MIs(copyright Cardiganshire FHS)

David Richards(1747-1810) had a son David(1790-1807),who is buried with him,obviously dying before his father.

Elizabeth Richards(1745-1830) is buried with Anne Evans(1820-1826),one of the children of her daughter Sarah.

It looks like Sarah Owens(1784-1839),her daughter from the will,married an Evan Evans and had at least the following children
Elizabeth(1810-1827)
William(1812-1836)
John(1815-1877)
Mary(1818?-?) married a David Williams,but was widowed early)
Anne(1820-1826)


Various combinations of the family are at Tynllan in the 1841 and 1861 censuses at least,and are given as "of Tynllan" on burial,including Sarah's husband Evan Evans(1770-1854)

Of Elizabeth Richards' other children the record for Morgan Owens(1775-1859) looks promising as he is at Penlan in the 1841 census,the other property specified in one of the wills.(There was a Pen y Lan in the Thomas Davies 1701 will also,but this is a very,very common name)
Interestingly,there is a John Meredith staying with him,who,while the age looks  wrong,is posssibly the son of David Meredith of Ffosybleiddiaid.

There is a possibility that the Enoch Morgan(1763-1850) at Cnwc is the appropriate one.There is an isolated burial record in the same row as the Richards and Evans above for Mary,an 18 month old daughter of Enoch,in 1806.

Regards
Roger

[Viking666]

Thanks for the info on the mystery children of Elizabeth. I had another look at the entry that is always quoted by NLW that shows the Rev. John as gaining his BA and MA at Oxford. That would have been a good indicator as they always state the father's name but, as well as the entry being wrongly attributed to John, they don't show his father's name either. Damn!
                                              Regards from Peter.

[despair]

Neither the Shirley Martin article nor the pre 1813 burial records provide any further clues to the identity or fate of the David Richards,father of Jane(1755),Edward(1759?),John(1760) and James(1763).
(Out of historical interest there appeared to be deaths due to smallpox in 1801)

There appears the need to fill a gap between the 1719/1721 indenture records for Richard David/David Richard associated with"Unis Pervedd"(the father being the same person with wife Goley in 1694) and the siblings of 1755-1763,one of whom(Edward) leaves the freehold of "Ynys y Berfedd" in his will of 1833.


Regards
Roger

[despair]

Still struggling to make that connection.
There is a natural tendency to be drawn to the 1727 will of Richard David of Ystrad Meurig.He may be the son referred to in the previous post,but I can't find an obvious will for the father.
Even if it is him,the will has the tone that the children are not minors.I can't find any birth or burial data to give a clue.If they are not minors,David as the eldest,might be born 1700-1710,which makes him a dubious father for a family up to 1763,though not impossible.This might leave an intermediate generation when the required David as father could be the son of any of the siblings-David,Lewis,William,Thomas,Edward.

On a thread I've touched on before there is still the possibility(?) that David Richards of Tynllan(1747) could be an earlier sibling of Jane(1755 etc),independent of whether they are the children of David Richards and Letitia Parry,married 1737.

As an aside to this,you quoted early on that Tynllan was involved with the sale of Lledrod Mill.I can see it is in the same series of indentures under Ceredigion,but the property specifically mentioned is Tyn y Porth.


There is an interesting,possibly artificial,construct,available from the meagre data.There is a marriage in 1754 of David Richard and Elizabeth Jones at Strata Florida,Carmarthenshire.I assume there is only one Strata Florida i.e. not too far away from Ystrad Meurig.Some records from these early periods including Tregaron and Ystrad Meurig  come under rather than Cardiganshire.
There are burial records for David Richard,1789,Lledrod and Elizabeth,wife of David Richard,Lledrod 1790.In isolation these might look good candidates as parents.

Regards
Roger

[Viking666]

Hi Roger, The indenture that relates to the sale of Lledrod mill is part of a series. First there is the release of the mill for 1 year by David ... during this year the new owner of the mill builds a house on the mill grounds, named Twyn y Rhose. By the time of final transfer of the property, both are shown.
 I've been trawling through the indentures that we have. There is something about Bryn Perfedd that bothers me; primarily the fact that the place is so remote and that, on the old Parish map that I have, in the placing of the modern Bryn Perfedd, there is no dwelling house shown. I've dated the map as being, 'after 1867' simply because the railway is shown. (Opened in 1867). Either there was an older house that had vanished by this date, later re-built, or that the earlier positioning of this house is wrong.
 In earlier Indents it seems that various forms of the name refer to an area that covers everything that lies to the south of a line from Swyddffynnon to Strygos fawr. In the 1658 indenture Tythin Y Bryn Issaf is the dwelling and 2 parcels of land called Ynys y Garn and Ynys Berfedd, Lledrod, are shown. Ynys y Garn is close to the church at Lledrod, the site of the school set up by the Oliver fund. In notes of Edward Richard, Schoolmaster, it is said that he was at his school at Ystrad Meurig every day at 4 a.m., studying before the pupils arrived. He is shown as of "Brynperfedd" and this must have been close to his school rather than hiking all of the way from the other "Ynys y Bryn Perfedd". Note that in any document for Edward, the spelling, 'Brynperfedd' is always shown.
In an indent. of 1684 it states, "messuage and lands called Bryn Perfedd, Ystrad Meurig".
In the first Indent. (1694 and 1697 that mentions David and Goley, the property is Tythin y Bryn Merllyd. In their indent. of 1719, the properties are Ynys Perfedd and Tythin y Bryn Merllyd.
In the indents of 1746 and 1757, Edward Richard is again described as of 'Brynperfedd, Ystrad Meurig. (If my hypotheses is correct then his will can be taken in another light as regards the properties bequeathed to the Church).
It looks as if the house, Brynperfedd, is at Ystrad Meurig and the property Ynys y Bryn Perfedd relates to an area that would include the modern farms of Penbryn, Bryn Issaf and Ynys Perfedd. It may be just a case of interchangeable names, as you suggested for other docs in the last paragraph of your last post, but it's worth thinking about.
 My hypotheses doesn't help us at all in our search for the 'culprit' David but it could help in finding out who was actually where at certain times. David and Goley may have been involved initially with the modern Penbryn.
 Note that Shirley Martin says in her item that,
[ Ynysberfedd in Lledrod went to his cousin, Joseph Davies, farmer, of Ynysberfedd.]
I now have been ordered to help with the housework but I'll be back later.
           Regards, Peter.

[despair]

The key point I think is that David Richard/Richard David(indents1719/1721) and Rev.Edward Richard(will 1833) both refer to "Unis Pervedd" and "Ynysyberfedd" not BrynPerfedd.It is this family "continuity"we are trying to confirm.There are two references,which,I think,also support the
fact that a school was at such a remote location which I will try to post later.

Regards
Roger