RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: vito321 on Sunday 13 January 08 02:10 GMT (UK)
-
I have a relative who joined the 62nd regiment of foot in 1858 on his dicharge papers it says he joined from antrim militia ???? is there records for the Antrim militia or is it known by some other name . Thanks for any help! ???
-
Hi vito321,
The Public Record Office in Belfast have the Milita Pay Lists and Muster Rolls (Co. Antrim) 1799-1800) T. 1115/1A and B. All we now need to do is trace the whereabouts of the records after that date.
The Royal Engineers section of army.mod.uk mentions the Royal Antrim Militia which was mobilised in 1854-56 for the Crimean War and between 1899-1901 for the Boer War
Christopher
-
Hi,
The 19thC paylist records for the Antrim Militia are held at the UK's National Archives repository in Kew, London.
[As are "North Down Militia", etc.
Military administration of Ireland was performed under the auspices of the new UK Government which was constituted on 01-JAN-1801.]
Just dial up www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and enter "Antrim Militia" (with the quotes) in to the Search box.
This will throw up the names of soldiers discharged through the Chelsea Hospital, and also the Paylists.
For convenience I list the latter here, in time order:
********
WO 13
War Office and predecessors:
Militia and Volunteers Muster Books and Pay Lists
MILITIA IRELAND: Antrim
WO 13/2574 1793 - 1798
WO 13/2575 1799
WO 13/2576 1800
WO 13/2577 1801
WO 13/2578 1802
WO 13/2579 1803
WO 13/2580 1804
WO 13/2581 1805
WO 13/2582 1806
WO 13/2583 1807
WO 13/2584 1808
WO 13/2585 1809
WO 13/2586 1810 - 1811
WO 13/2587 1812 - 1813
WO 13/2588 1814 - 1822
WO 13/2589 1823 - 1849
[4 year gap.]
WO 13/2590 1854 - 1856
WO 13/2591 1856 - 1858
WO 13/2592 1858 - 1859
WO 13/2593 1859 - 1860
WO 13/2594 1860 - 1867
WO 13/2595 1867 - 1872
WO 13/2596 1872 - 1876
********
The Paylists contain info on Service (Location, Rank, Musters, Pay, Beer Money, etc.) but not usually much of "personal" interest (unless unusual circumstances occurred).
It was common for local Militia to be recruited in to mainline regiments, for which a larger bounty was usually paid than for raw recruits.
The standard period signed up to on enlistment was for 12 years, though many continued beyond this.
Capt. Jock
-
Thanks for that information very useful do you know would it have a place of birth or next of kin??
-
If anybody outthere is feeling particularly helpful I am looking for a Francis O'Brian (o'Brien) in antrim militia would be in either
WO 13/2590 1854 - 1856
WO 13/2591 1856 - 1858
He joined 62nd regiment of foot in 1858 and was linited discharge in 1867 following a court martial in may 1867 in Cork (Does anyone know if court martial records exist). Would like to get any info I can on him especially anything that might help me locate his date or place of birth or relatives..
Thanks
;)
-
Hi again!
Soldiers' Personal Details
(From my limited experience of 1870-80s records ...)
The only places where addresses and/or names of next of kin appear to be listed are:
A) Discharge papers, amongst Service Records (WO/97).
[For men who had completed their full service period
(and who might be persuaded to re-enlist at a later date)
or who had been invalided out.]
[These records contain information about age, physical appearance,
birthplace and trade or occupation on enlistment in the Army, along with a
record of service such as any decorations awarded, promotions and reductions in rank, crimes and punishments and the reason for discharge. Usually any address listed is simply their immediate intended destination upon discharge, for which they were paid to reach.]
B) "Effects and Credits" lists amongst the Pay Lists (WO/12, 13, 16).
[For men who had been killed.
In order to return personal belongings and outstanding pay to relatives.]
--------
Unfortunatley, neither of these cases applies to your soldier's situation.
No record (for the relevant period) is thrown up by a search for "francis o'brian" or "francis o'brien" in UKNA.
[However, earlier instances of the name are listed, and these may give you a hint of possible previous family involvement in military service.]
For the sake of completeness and peace of mind, the Paylists are probably still worth a scan - just in case!
Courts Martial Records
These are held in series WO/86:
********
Judge Advocate General's Office:
District Courts Martial Registers, Home and Abroad
1829-1979
124 volume(s)
This series comprises registers of district court martial at home and abroad from the Judge Advocate General's Office, from the institution of district courts martial in 1829.
These district courts martial tried only non-commissioned officers and other ranks.
The registers of charges give, in tabulated form,
the name, rank and regiment of each prisoner,
place of trial, nature of the charge and sentence.
********
Specifically, your soldier's case details will be in:
WO 86/16 1867-1868
All very terse stuff.
Does not contain details of the circumstances of the offence events, nor any personal details of the soldiers.
--------
Such Courts Martials-able events happened regulalry in the field.
The commonest cause was frustration and over-drinking by the men, particularly prevalent during periods of military inactivity.
This resulted in ...
... derilictions of duty;
[Absence without leave, or sleeping while on sentry duty,
were considered particularly serious offences.]
... insubordinations.
[e.g. disobeying an order, or striking a superior officer.]
This latter situation was frequently deliberately engineered (for discipline purposes) by sergeants, espcially if someone became too full of himself or too popular with the men.
Gaol sentences, together with demotions in rank (e.g. Corporal back down to Private) were common. Dismissal from service was quite a serious punishment.
Records Consulatation
I've been looking for an excuse to visit Kew for a while, and like to do a good deed every day ...
Can you wait till (late opening on) Thursday?!
Capt. Jock
-
Capt. Jock
Your a gentleman, thanks very much for your kind offer. Is there any other info I can give you that might be helpful?
vito
-
Vito
Take the Captain's advice...and keep plodding on with them WO records etc.
They helped me no end.....otherwise I would have had a body in a grave...and still be wondering where he had come from... ;D
and Capt Jock if you get to Kew....your good deed gets you the best Ulster fry.
Steve
-
Ulster fry ?? yummmmmmmmmmm !!
Is that bribery or incentive Steve ?? :D :D :D :D
-
Hee hee
BOTH
anyone who will go out of their way to help someone else deserves the best.......yummmmyy
Steve
-
Capt. Vito,
Here is what I found at Kew for you:
[Manic day - the building is being refurbished (to accomodate records moving from the FHC), and is closing all next week, so it was mobbed!]
--------
UKNA Doc: WO 13/2593
Paylists of the Militia: Antrim Rifles
Item 1: APR-JUN 1859
Battn based at : Aldershot
[Lots of recruits joining, most from Belfast.]
<edit>
P.53 Privates Pay
1278 OBrien, Francis
Paid for 16 Days, Absent 13th-15th April
1st Muster - Volunteered to 62nd Regt on 20th.
P.101 Transfers, etc.
P.103 & 104
<end edit>
Reg. No. :1278
Name: Francis OBrien
Place of Birth: Moneymore
Trade When Enlisted: Printer
Date of Enlistment: 25th Jan 1856
Reason became ineffective: Volunteered to 62nd Regt. at Woolwich 20th April.
--------
UKNA Doc: WO 13/2590
Paylists of the Militia: Antrim Rifles
Item 5: JAN-MAR 1856
Battn based at : Aldershot
[Lots of men being transferred over in to a variety of Foot and Royal Artillery Regts.]
P. 73 Recruits
P.74
Reg. No.: 1278
Name: Francis OBrien
Date of Enlistment: 25th Jan 1856
Age: 18
Height: 5 ft 3 1/2 ins
Enlisted: Belfast
Quarterly Bounty: 3s 4d
Fee for Attesting: 1/-
Bringing Money: 5/-
Bounty: 20/-
Total for Each Man: £1 6s -
[1276 Patrick MCallow (18 1/2) and 1346 William Park (19) enlisted at Belfast on the same day. 1170 Peter OBrien and 1139/1971 A. Patrick OBrien had enlisted at Dublin during the previous quarter.]
---------
UKNA Doc ID: WO 12/7223
Paylist of the 62nd Foot
JAN-MAR 1868
Battn based at : Cork
About a third of the men were listed as not being re-engaged.
P.73
That quarter about 40 men were subject to pay forfeiture, and 9 had been sentenced anew, as a result of Courts Martials.
Regt. No.: 355
Name: Francis OBrien
Period of Forfeiture: 60 days
Date from which it commenced: 3 Feby
Brought Forward: 58 days
Amount: £7 4s 10d
Remarks: In M Prison
P44.
355 Francis OBrien
In Military Prison 21 Days
In Confinement 10 days
No. days pay forfeited 31 days
Reason for absence from Muster: In confinement C Machal 1 - 31 March
--------
Haven't been able to locate the details of the CM charge and sentence yet.
It may be amongst the GCM records.
Some sentences did include being discharged from service ["D"].
[Being a Private, he couldn't simply be demoted in rank.]
He'd been in trouble earlier:
UKNA Doc: WO 13/2592
Paylists of the Militia: Antrim Rifles
Item 2: OCT-DEC 1858
Battn based at : Woolwich
P. 47
Reg. No.: 1278
Name: Francis OBrien
3rd Muster: G. Room 30th Novr
BC (?) No.: 1st Decr
Sentenced to 42 days in Prn with forfeiture of 1s per day for 3 months
[P. 73 1170 Peter OBrien confined for 32 days, for Military or Civil offence.]
--------
So, there's lots of personal info that can be had (on all those lovely Co. Antrim folks) in those records ...
Off to have a large fry, and spend my beer money on some Youngs products, in the Waggon & Horses!
Pip pip!
Capt Jock
-
Dear capt jock fantastic Im off now to raid the moneymore records , cant thank you enough. If I can help you by looking at proni records let me know.
vito
-
Also as a matter of interest was it spelt O'Brien or O'Brian in records as he seems to have spelt it O'Brian in marriage and census records ?
vito
-
OBrien was used consistently throughout both regiments.
The Paymaster would have taken it from the man himself.
-
thanks just wondering was it a deliberate spelling of" O'Brian " or accident.
vito
-
well done Capt.
Ulster fry as promised,
the same for anyone who goes out of their way to help
-
Good Morning,
I am coming late into this conversation. My GGGG-grandfather Alexander Markham was Quartermaster of the Antrim Rifles 28 January 1846 until 2 March 1861 when he exchanged to the Antrim Artillery. I have researched through the newspapers, gazettes and Hart's Lists. I have found a reference in the 30 May 1856 – Limerick Reporter stating that Markham had resigned (while unit was at Aldershott), yet in 13 September 1856 - The Daily Express he is still shown as Quartermaster at Carrickfergus. It should be noted that his son Alexander Macaulay Markham (my GGG-grandfather) was also a member for about 2 years of the Antrim Artillery before he joined the BCS. The elder Markham appears to have served in the Artillery until his death in 1876.
I am curious to know if the records exist for either. I have hundreds of pages of information on A. Markham from age 40 but nothing prior. Any help would be greatly appreciated
Don