Author Topic: DYNAN/DINAN Cork area, Catholic and occupation Tailors!  (Read 4410 times)

Offline Lyndylooking

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DYNAN/DINAN Cork area, Catholic and occupation Tailors!
« on: Tuesday 24 July 12 21:19 BST (UK) »
Hi, I've posted on here before but I am still struggling with my Irish genealogy! So I'd love some help with finding the birth and parents of John Dynan b. abt 1806-12 believed to be in Cork, he was a Tailor by occupation, married at the Cathedral in Manchester in 1827.
 Other names that maybe useful in isolating them are;
 Nicholas Dinon b abt 1822 Ireland (likely a brother) also a Tailor by occupation, he is a witness at John's daughters baptism in 1842, he marries in Bolton Le Moors near Manchester in 1850 and his father is listed as John Dynan 'a Tailor' (I have considered that John b 1806-12 is his father but I dont think he is due to their ages and his birth in Ireland). Nicholas dies in abt 1854.
So hopefully that means 'their' father was John Dynan-a Tailor-so at least two generations of Tailors and more to come!
 John Dynan b.1830 Wales from 1841 census, or possibly England, son of John b 1806-12. It looks like he travels to USA in 1848/9 with a Mick Dynan both born abt 1828-1830, maybe brothers or cousins and both listed as Tailors on the manifest.

I've tried everything I can think of many times with no success but wondered if the 'Tailor' occupation could help. Is there a site with Tailors in Cork in the early 1800's to try and find their father?
I'm having problems finding Nicholas anywhere before the baptism in 1842, I can't find him on any 1841 census at all, any ideas of where to look next would be great.
Sorry to waffle on, just keep trying to re visit all angles...any help would be wonderful.
Thanks

Offline shanew147

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Re: DYNAN/DINAN Cork area, Catholic and occupation Tailors!
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 24 July 12 21:28 BST (UK) »
Two major problems unfortunately - your dates are very early, and before the start of most parish records. In addition the lack of a detailed location is only going to add to the difficulty.. since you've no way to check what if any historic records are available for the area your Dinan/Dynan family lived.

Many parish records for Co. Cork are available on www.irishgenealogy.ie - but note these only include RC records, and for the south west of the county, and some parts of the city. Transcripts for some other areas in north and west Co. Cork are available on the pay-website of RootsIreland.




Shane
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Offline Lyndylooking

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Re: DYNAN/DINAN Cork area, Catholic and occupation Tailors!
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 24 July 12 22:16 BST (UK) »
Hi Shane, Thanks for your speedy response, its not the best news but thanks for explaining why I'm finding it so difficult. I'm starting to think I'll just have to accept that that's as far as I can go with them.
 But then again... do you know of any gravestone inscriptions for Cork that I may get some joy from? I believe they were Catholic.
 I think maybe..possibly... they came from the Queenstown/Cobh area but it maybe wishful thinking, family tales just mention a 'Harbourmaster of Cork' as some relation but not necessarily with the Dynan surname even and I've no idea of a date for him-I've tried that route with no success also!
If John b. 1806-12 and Nicholas b.1822 were part of a large family, is there a way to find Dynan's who were Tailors in subsequent years in that area? As presumably they apprenticed to relations for that trade...I just keep trying to think around the problem!
Thanks again Shane.
Does anyone else have Dynan ancestors who were Tailors in the Cork area?
I do hope so, thanks.

Offline shanew147

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Re: DYNAN/DINAN Cork area, Catholic and occupation Tailors!
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 25 July 12 08:31 BST (UK) »
I know of one directory that covers that timeframe - Pigot's Directory of Ireland. It covers traders and businesses in Cities and Major Towns throughout  Ireland during 1824 - but obviously doesn't include everyone, or the smaller trades.

It includes a listing for 'Cove' as it was called back then, but unfortunately there's no mention included of any Tailors in the town, or any Dynan/Dinans. I also had a quick look at the listing for Cork city but no Dynan/Dinans as tailors there either. Other towns in Co. Cork are listed, but in with all the other Munster listings.

Unfortunately 'Cork' is the name of the county - and it's the  largest in Ireland. So any clues that narrow down the location could really help your search. What exactly did your clue that lead to 'Cork' state ?

The date might be a bit early for other detailed directories, but it might be worth checking to see if there are any earlier directories specific to the area. I know some links are included for these on the Cork Resources board.


Shane
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Offline kiwichick45

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Re: DYNAN/DINAN Cork area, Catholic and occupation Tailors!
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 08 May 14 06:10 BST (UK) »
Hi I was interested to read your post regarding the Dinan family of tailors from Cork.
My Great grand mother died in NZ in 1883 her name was Ellen Dinnen on her death certificate but her daughter Jane had their  name written in the family bible as Dinan we always thought that our Dinans were from County Cork and there are a lot of tailors/dressmakers in the family.  I have just accessed Ellens Death certificate and it says she was from County Clare formerly nee Denit spelt in our bible Dennit.   She married Dennis Dineen/Dinan in Ireland at the age of 30 in approx 1852 according to her death certificate. I wonder if he possibly came from County Cork.  They were catholics.  I can't find a record of the Marriage but it says they were married in Ireland and they have four children one was Jane or Johanna Dinnen who married Edward Monaghan died in NZ in 1908.  The  family names are Cecil, Harold, Denis and Edward.   Johanna or Jane Dinan was illiterate and I suspect may have been dyslexic but quite creative.  There is certainly a gene handed down from that side of the family that makes everyone reverse their letters really badly as children and at times write backwards!   The spelling is not to flash either with some of them!

Offline Lyndylooking

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Re: DYNAN/DINAN Cork area, Catholic and occupation Tailors!
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 08 May 14 14:06 BST (UK) »
Hi Kiwichick,
Thanks for your message and all the info, it's exciting, I don't think I've had info for the correct time frame before and the Tailor/Dressmaker aspects are encouraging.
The fact that your Dinan/Dinnen's emigrated to NZ is interesting, I know that some of my earlier 'elusive' ones went to the US, and possibly Canada, so maybe if we do some good research and get lucky there maybe a link to find!

The male names known at that time in my line were John, Nicholas, Charles, Jacobus/James. Some 'potential people' (marrying in nearby churches, in similar years, with the same surnames at a time and place where those names were not common) were Michael, Thomas, Mary and Bridget.
Some of the Dinan/Dynan 'tailors', that I think maybe part of this line, who went to the US and Canada were called Michael and Thomas.

I'm trying to think of anything that could help...
Although I've mainly concentrated on Co Cork and in particular Cork to try and find these Dynan/Dinan's, I have always known that they could come from Co Clare. It's just a family tale about 'Harbourmasters of Cork' that makes me focus there..and that could be misleading!

More recently, I was told by a records office in Ireland that there were Dynan's who were Timber Merchants and that some were on the Board of Commissioners for the Harbour, unfortunately I can't remember the dates for this, but I have written notes somewhere!
The creative angle in your family is also interesting as my line was very musical and creative also, but that might be something.. or just a coincidence!
Thanks for all your info, I think as people respond maybe we can build up enough to start to find the lines between them..here's hoping!
Thanks and Best Wishes.


 

Offline kiwichick45

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Re: DYNAN/DINAN Cork area, Catholic and occupation Tailors!
« Reply #6 on: Friday 09 May 14 01:07 BST (UK) »
I believe from family stories that our Dinans went to America and then Ballarat before coming to
NZ.  There is a James Dinan and family listed as travelling on the passenger ship Hougmoumont with his family in 1866 they landed in South Australia he was 21 or 22 at the time from memory I checked them out as I thought they may be ours.   He had a baby that died and is buried over there also called James aged 3 months. Quite a few Dinans in Ballarat.  The Dinans really got around!
I have also been researching NZ papers past and there are a few Dinans have come into NZ some settling in Greymouth and the other in the Hawkesbay.   From memory I think there was a Bridget listed as going to the Hawkes bay in the news archives papers past her occupation was listed as servant.   
I was thinking about getting a dna test for my mother for her birthday from familytreedna and see there were any other dna hits with Dinans.    Edward Monahan who Jane Dinan married brings back a number of dna hits for County Cork area.  And mum always believed they were from Cork rather than Clare.   Thanks for you reply.  It is very interesting!

Offline ReneeCampbell

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Re: DYNAN/DINAN Cork area, Catholic and occupation Tailors!
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 12 June 19 01:55 BST (UK) »
Hey Dynan/Dinan team,

I'm currently also searching the same lines as kiwichick45. My mother's mothers line goes back to Edward Monaghan who married Jane Dinan (poss mis-spelt per prior comments).

Family bible records show similar info to what kiwichick45 has, and I have copies of the NZ death cert for Jane Dinan (surname noted as Mills on cert) (D: 1908 aged 82, est birth in Ireland c.1826), who at that stage was widowed to her second husband John Mills who died in 1895).  She died in Auckland, NZ. Place of birth not noted except "Ireland".

She married her first husband, noted as Edward Monaghan (who I'm also trying to trace) in Ireland and they had 3 children. Married John Mills in Auckland, and had 2 sons, John and James.
Jane's parents are noted as: Denis Dinan, Labourer, and Ellen Dinan (Nee Denitt).

There is a story about Edward's family not approving of Jane, and I understand she may have been a seamstress (or similar, though earlier we thought she might be a maid, but the seamstress thing fits in with the other Dinan details I found here). Edward apparently descended somehow from a Lord Monaghan, of Monaghan county, Ireland (my tracing back for this area seems to note Lord (House of Lords) Monaghan as being possibly Westenra/Rossmore families) and County Cork.  I am left wondering if the Edward and Jane adopted the surname Monaghan, rather than keeping his surname (apparently his family disowned him? Not sure about that, but if so, this could be why I'm stuck trying to get earlier records for him).

My research mentions that people sometimes say they "come from County Cork" when it means they actually travelled from the port there, with no real family base in the County. I'm not sure, but suspect this might be the case for my family, given the links to Monaghan, but still researching Cork anyway.

I've not been able to confirm details from Ireland for Denis and Ellen Dinan or birth/baptism records for Jane, as yet.  I'm aware that the names could be "alternative/second names" and are very common, so the search is fairly exhaustive.

I do have from family bible the deaths of Denis Dinan (9 June 1866) and Ellen Dinan (4 July 1882).

Children of Edward Monaghan and Jane Dinan are noted on the family bible as surname "Monahan Mills" but birth/marriage/death info has a variety of spellings of this.
Children of Edward and Jane:
Edward Monaghan (b.Dec 26 1853 possibly in Bendigo, Vic, Australia) (went on to marry a Mary Anne McMurra Wilson, then an Ellen Collett);
Ellen Monaghan (b. 3 June 1856 possibly in Australia) (went on to marry a Thomas Edward Evans with name recorded as Minihan); and
Cecil Denis Diner Monaghan (b.27 Nov 1860 in Auckland NZ, parents noted as Jane and Edward) (have not been able to track down a marriage/death info for him, but family bible says he died on 18 August 1902)

I have a information about the descendants from this family, but not the ancestors. If anyone has any matches to these details, I would be extremely grateful for any gaps being filled in, as I would love to be able to verify the many, many stories I've heard about Edward leaving his family to go to California (goldmines) then to Australia/NZ. Also tracing back to check the veracity of the "Lord Monaghan" story would be interesting to me.

Thanks all for your help.

Offline hallmark

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Re: DYNAN/DINAN Cork area, Catholic and occupation Tailors!
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 12 June 19 06:28 BST (UK) »
Have you Searched  https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/ ?

Just put Surname in  (plus Year Range if you want) and hit Search. From there Select Cork from list on left.

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/church-records/about/what-church-records-are-available-online
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