Two brick walls I think I will never break down - both same family

[Lisajb]

Firstly there is Ann Woodman.  Ann gave birth to a son, George, who was baptised in Little Sodbury on 10th July 1785.  I have seen the parish register, after the names and date, it says "illeg."

I've looked through bastardy bonds for Chipping Sodbury borough - nothing.  I know nothing about Ann, where she came from, when she was born, if she married later on, when she died.  I just don't know what to look for next.  I think she is truly a dead end for me.

And this leads on to George's son James, born 1812 in Old Sodbury - the next village along.  He married an Eliza Matthews born ca 1820, who is the brick wall.  The marriage certificate shows a line drawn through the box for both Eliza and James fathers names and occupations (bit interesting for James as I know who his father was, George above), as does the parish register which I viewed today (another frustrating day at the archives!).  Banns gave no further information.

Eliza appears on the census from 1841-1891 (she should be on the 1901 as well but not found her yet).  And herein lies the problem - the place of birth changes

1841 - no place of birth (this was taken after her marriage so she appears with James)
1851 - Purton, Wiltshire
1861 - Not Known
1871 - Purton again
1881 - Codrington, Gloucestershire
1891 - back to Purton again

There are two witnesses on James and Eliza's marriage certificate but I don't know how to use them to see if they might be of help somehow.  I've looked for births/baptisms online for her but everything I find seems to not quite fit somehow.

thanks
Lisa

[Jomot]

I'm sure you'll have looked at most records already, but just in case here's a couple of possibilities:

Baptism 4 Mar 1764, Chippenham, St Andrew, ANN WOODMAN
Father: David Woodman, Mother: Ann

Marriage: 13th January 1788, Weston Birt
James Dash & Anne Woodman (of Yate)

There are a few other births / marriages around the same time but these looked closest geographically.

[bibliotaphist]

Do you know when, where and in what circumstances Eliza died?

1901 census: she's not the Eliza Woodman in Keynsham Union Workshouse in Somerset (RG13/2352/84/2), b. Purton Wilts in c.1823?

Paul

[lisalisa]

Firstly there is Ann Woodman.  Ann gave birth to a son, George, who was baptised in Little Sodbury on 10th July 1785.  I have seen the parish register, after the names and date, it says "illeg."

I've looked through bastardy bonds for Chipping Sodbury borough - nothing.  I know nothing about Ann, where she came from, when she was born, if she married later on, when she died.  I just don't know what to look for next.  I think she is truly a dead end for me.

Looking at the online baptism records that come up with the name Woodman in Old Sodbury and Little Sodbury, there's an Isaac Woodman with a wife Ann, who are having children baptised.
Although the name 'Ann' as a daughter of theirs doesn't appear, could it be that they are the parents of this 'Ann' who has George, and either she was baptised in a 'different' name or there has been an error in the writing up of the record (or at a different church)?
This Isaac and Ann Woodman have daughters who would be about the right age.

I don't know the geography well enough to have looked in any other local parishes.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hughwallis/

good luck with finding Ann,

Lisa 

[Lisajb]

Yate is just down the road from Little Sodbury (it's where I live, in fact!), so that's a possiblity for a marriage.

Paul, all I have for Eliza are "abouts" for dates, drawn from the census. The death record I have for her from FreeBMD is September quarter 1903, and age of 84 which gives another "about" of 1819, registration district Keynsham.

I'll certainly look at the Isaac and Ann mentioned by Lisa

[Jomot]

Yate is just down the road from Little Sodbury (it's where I live, in fact!), so that's a possiblity for a marriage.

If it is the right Ann then FreeBMD has a possible death for her - Ann Dash, March 1845, Thornbury, Volume 11, Page 413

Good luck in your search 

[Lisajb]

Jane baptised 1768, parents Isaac Woodman and Ann, in Little Sodbury, looks to have gone on to marry a James Tyler in 1794 in Old Sodbury.

Which leaves Betty and Mary.  I have doubts about Mary, assuming she was baptised fairly soon after she was born, she'd be too young.  I do know that sometimes baptisms took place in later years.

There's also a gap between Betty and Jane, enough for a missing child or two.

The baptism record for Ann's son George definitely says Ann.

[avm228]

Jane baptised 1768, parents Isaac Woodman and Ann, in Little Sodbury, looks to have gone on to marry a James Tyler in 1794 in Old Sodbury.

Which leaves Betty and Mary.  I have doubts about Mary, assuming she was baptised fairly soon after she was born, she'd be too young.  I do know that sometimes baptisms took place in later years.

There's also a gap between Betty and Jane, enough for a missing child or two.

The baptism record for Ann's son George definitely says Ann.

If you can find the maiden name for Isaac's wife Ann, I suggest also looking for Ann jr's baptism in that name in case she was born before the marriage and took the Woodman name later.

[Lisajb]

Two possible families, from IGI

From lisalisa's post - Isaac Woodman and Ann - I cannot find a marriage for an Isaac and Ann in Gloucestershire.  They did have the following children baptised in Old/Little Sodbury at about the right time.
Betty 1762
Jane 1768
Isaac 1770
Robert 1773
Mary 1776

Or in Steeple Ashton, Wiltshire which is about 25 miles away, a Thomas Woodman married Sarah Harrell in 1764.
The following Woodman children were baptised in Steeple Ashton
James 1765
John 1766
Ann 1768
Robert 1770
William 1772
Isaac 1774
Sarah 1778
Susanna 1784
Samuel 1788

Still no idea though!  Counting against the Sodbury family is the fact they don't seem to have an Ann, and without a marriage I cannot look for an Ann born to the wife before the marriage.  The name Isaac does recur in later generations - one of George's grandsons was called Isaac, but I imagine it was a fairly common first name back then and therefore I cannot count on that.

I need a crystal ball!