Author Topic: Roberts Family of Fachwen and Llandeiniolen  (Read 25040 times)

Offline despair

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Re: Roberts Family of Fachwen and Llandeiniolen
« Reply #18 on: Thursday 13 June 13 15:27 BST (UK) »
As the latest John Daniel search has petered out,I thought I would try a different angle on Jane(nee Roberts).You say that she is "of the family of Hugh Roberts",and I thought I would look for clues via him.

These biographical details:
http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/cgi-bin/WI/WI-idx?type=turn&entity=WI.WFWelshSett.p0165&id=WI.WFWelshSett&isize=text
 and
http://www.scls.lib.wi.us/por/columbia/images/00000034.pdf

suggest he is the Hugh Roberts at Tanybuarth,Llandeiniolen in 1841 (ref  1394  11/44  4)

FamilySearch has his marriage to Mary Jones at Holyhead,Anglesey(May 1825,two weeks after Thomas' baptism?) and the baptisms of the children Thomas(1825),Hannah(1830),Robert(1833) all at Ysgoldy or Pentir Calvanistic,Llanfair and Dwygyfylchi/LLanddeiniolen.

Hugh's son Thomas H Roberts has an uncle David R Roberts and with Hugh also being referred to as "Hugh R Roberts" it is tempting to think Hugh and David are both sons of a Robert Roberts.
It is also tempting to think that David Roberts is the one at Penybuarth(?) in 1841(ref 1394  10/6  6).
I'll see if I can find a connection to a Jane,but "of the family" does not necessarily imply a sister(?) though the 1841 census birth range(1786-1796) for Jane,Hugh,David could make this plausible(remembering that 1841 births are generally "rounded" to the nearest five).

Regards
Roger

Offline despair

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Re: Roberts Family of Fachwen and Llandeiniolen
« Reply #19 on: Thursday 13 June 13 16:26 BST (UK) »
There was also a mention of a sister Gwen to Thomas H Roberts.I have now fouhd that baptism-the same as the other three children at Ysgoldy or Pentir to Hugh Roberts and Mary Jones in January 1823,over two years before their marriage.
She might be at ref 1394  11/8  8  with Ellis and Jane Foulkes in 1841
(I don't suppose Jane(Roberts or Jones) is related to Mary,perhaps both daughters of a Robert Jones?I'm not sure if the cousin relationship to Foulk Roberts then works?)

Regards
Roger

Offline despair

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Re: Roberts Family of Fachwen and Llandeiniolen
« Reply #20 on: Thursday 13 June 13 18:44 BST (UK) »
There is a marriage of David Roberts to Ellin Jones at Llanddeiniolen in 1820(FamilySearch) that would match the 1841 David Roberts census in the earlier post.Another opportunity for a relationship to Jane?

Regards
Roger

Offline welshpride

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Re: Roberts Family of Fachwen and Llandeiniolen
« Reply #21 on: Thursday 13 June 13 22:42 BST (UK) »
I don't know Despair.  I'll try to figure out where you are going with your search, but the past two days I have been quite disillusioned with genealogy.  For the longest time people have been telling me how unusual a name John Daniel is in North Wales and yet we come up with three (the one we already knew, plus two more), both John Daniel, both with daughter-in-laws named Jane, even the correct communities or parishes, and yet none of the leads we've had for them or this Roberts line has panned out.  I'm beginning to thinbk John Daniel is a very popular name in Wales.  Everything has come up empty.  I'm not sure right now that we're ever going to improve on what I already knew coming in.

I appreciate your continued efforts.  I will likely get back into the game fairly soon.  Right now, just too disappointed.  Someone out there knows these families, and I've tried to blanket the Internet with as many search possibilities as I can.  Perhaps the right person just has not seen my queries.  It wouldn't be the first time I've placed a request for information that wasn't "found" by the right informant until several years had passed.  It's amazing how many people are interested in this Roberts family, but only the descendants of Robert Roberts, none of his siblings or older ancesters.  We know Jane was related to Foulk and Hugh.  Perhaps that will eventually lead somewhere.  Thank you for your continued help and support.

Steve


Offline despair

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Re: Roberts Family of Fachwen and Llandeiniolen
« Reply #22 on: Thursday 13 June 13 23:01 BST (UK) »
I'll leave you with one last bit of data that might prove a lengthy extrapolation from limited data but for what it's worth:
The 1841 census tends to round ages,generally down,to the nearest five.Given that there is only the 1841 data for persons of interest(unless you have independent data)

Baptism of El(l)in Jones to Morgan and Ann Jones Tyddyn Wisgin  1799
Baptism of Jane Jones to same couple,no address,but same district 1782

Good luck with your future search

Regards
Roger

Offline welshpride

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Re: Roberts Family of Fachwen and Llandeiniolen
« Reply #23 on: Friday 14 June 13 02:19 BST (UK) »
Roger:

You've been a great help and as my friend Alan told me yesterday, sometimes eliminating possibilities is just as valuable as identifying correct links - all part of the puzzle, you know?  I will still be here, still hoping to latch onto someone's clue or hint.  Please don't hesitate to share anything you may come by.  I will keep shaking the tree to see what comes out.  If I can find something interesting, you'll see it posted here.

Steve

Offline welshpride

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Re: Roberts Family of Fachwen and Llandeiniolen
« Reply #24 on: Friday 14 June 13 12:21 BST (UK) »
I sat down last night and like a detective, began reviewing the facts about the relationships known between Foulk Roberts, the Roberts family overall, and Jane Roberts.  I recalled that the 1850 census taken in Waushara Township (later known as Fox Lake) Wisconsin had an interesting aspect to it.  Not only were John and Jane (Roberts) Daniel and their two children represented on the return, but so too was an 8-year-old boy named Thomas Roberts.

I consulted the Carl Hankwitz public family tree on Ancestry.com.  This is one of the most complete trees covering the Roberts family I could find.  I looked for young lads named Thomas Roberts and found one immediately.  In fact, the only lad who could qualify as the one enumerated with the Daniel family in the 1850 census was the son of Dafydd Roberts, brother of Foulk Roberts.  His son Thomas was born in 1843, according to records associated with the tree, so here is yet another interesting connection between the families. 

Now just because he was enumerated with the Daniel family does not mean Thomas was living with them.  The way the U.S. census worked at the time, you could be visiting a family for the day and if the census taker stopped by, he included you in the return for the family living in that household.  Still, the fact that he is listed on the Daniel return speaks to the kinship in the family. 

In regards to "Despair's" look at Hugh Roberts, I found the following information, also taken from the Hankwitz tree.  Hugh Roberts was recordedc as being among the family of Jane Roberts who settled in the Dodge County area of Wisconsin (along with Foulk).  The Hugh Roberts being referred to here is recorded as Hugh "Huw" Roberts (1788-1865).  There is a full biography on him attached to the Hankwitz tree.  In fact, it is stated that upon arrival in Wisconsin, Hugh "met his old friend John Daniel."  This would seem to confirm that the whole lot of them were quite well known to each other in back in Wales, prior to the mid-1840s.

Hugh was the brother of Robert R. Roberts (b.1777), from which Foulk descended.  He also had brothers Thomas (b.1779) and David (b.1782), as well as sisters Jane (b.1785-d.1804)and Ann (b.1791).

I also checked the ship manifest from the journey John Daniel and family took across the Atlantic.  Listed among the passengers specifically associated with Wales, were two with the last name Roberts.

One was recorded as Pugh Roberts, Tan-y-Buarth, Llandeiniolen.  The other was John Roberts, age 46 (self and family, wife Jane, age 44, and children John, Robert, Humphrey, Ellen, Owen, Dorothy and Morris), Beddgelert.  There was also a John Roberts who's age was listed as 30.

I'm not quite sure where to go with this, but reviewing the above stated details renews a bit of hope in me that a connection to my Jane Roberts can be established.

Offline despair

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Re: Roberts Family of Fachwen and Llandeiniolen
« Reply #25 on: Friday 14 June 13 13:23 BST (UK) »

Message deleted due to error in original.

Offline Huwcyn

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Re: Roberts Family of Fachwen and Llandeiniolen
« Reply #26 on: Friday 14 June 13 20:20 BST (UK) »
The key to finding an answer to your ancestry is probably finding a burial for John Roberts (1765 ).
I had a look at the Bishop's transcripts for Llanfaglan at the National Library, but I did not find anything other than what 'Despair' pointed out. Frustratingly, the vicar , though neater than many of his fellows, does not record the home of the parents of the Jane Roberts born around 1786. I couldn't locate a marriage for a John Roberts just previous to that either, but Llanfaglan is a small parish, so he might have had to 'import' a wife ! I don't think that you will ever find proof positive without that, only eliminate possibilities until you arrive at a degree of certainty that satisfies you.
     There are two churches in Llanfaglan, both of which have recorded burial grounds. I looked at the MIs for the newer one, with no luck. Unfortunately, the library is not in possession of the MIs for St Baglan, the much older church. I know that it has been published.
    The will of Robert John  Evan shows that he lived at Ty Eiddew. No grandchildren seem to be mentioned, and no homes mentioned for the children. John Roberts is given livestock, so one can suppose that he farmed locally. By 1841, no obvious connection can be seen between the family and the inhabitants.
Owen , Parry , Pritchard, Foulkes  o Llanddeiniolen
Jones, Bellis o Sir Fflint
Williams o Beaumaris
Chambers o Dulyn
Rowlands o Tywyn