Author Topic: Greenbaums, England to Cincinnati  (Read 6264 times)

Offline Joseph L. Oliver

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Re: Greenbaums, England to Cincinnati
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 26 February 12 20:10 GMT (UK) »
William's death record:  http://www.rootschat.com/links/0khp/

Record of William's gravestone:  https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/V6HC-7ZK

Shellyesq:

The death record for the William Wentworth at the top of the listings shows the deceased as widowed.  Not sure if we can rely on this one.

Joe
Burke, Sutherland, Curtis, Cuter, Koplik

Offline Joseph L. Oliver

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Re: Greenbaums, England to Cincinnati
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 26 February 12 23:30 GMT (UK) »
Genealiza:

Your revelation of a death certificate of Esther Ann Wentworth is astounding.  It's witnessed by J. B. Schaaf and shows them both living at the same address on Liston, which jives with my research.  The death date is 1915, the year that she last appears on the Williams Cincinnati Directory.  The Oct. 14 1822 birth date varies from the the "Nov. 1823" she indicates in the 1900 and 1910 Census while she was living with the Schaafs, but we can let the slight variance slide.  England as her parent's birth place jives with previous Census info.

What is so VERY interesting is that is shows HER mother's maiden name to be Swing.

And Shellyesq:  the death certificate for Albert Oliver is also intriguing:  it is dated Sept. 11th, 1952, and witnessed by Marie Oliver.  I've spoken with Albert E. Oliver's grandchildren, who say that they recall him dying around 1941.

Well, that's it for now.

Thanks all for your hard work.

Joe
Burke, Sutherland, Curtis, Cuter, Koplik

Offline shellyesq

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Re: Greenbaums, England to Cincinnati
« Reply #11 on: Monday 27 February 12 02:42 GMT (UK) »
Shellyesq:

The death record for the William Wentworth at the top of the listings shows the deceased as widowed.  Not sure if we can rely on this one.

Joe

In census records, I found a possible match for this William Wentworth who had a wife and children prior to Esther, so perhaps the widower was based on his first marriage.  The date of death seems to fit in with the timing of the pension application and that he got a headstone as a Union veteran.

On the issue of Swing being listed as Esther's mother's maiden name, I wonder if the question of "mother's maiden name" was answered by her daughter/son-in-law, who mistakenly took it as asking their mother (Esther's) maiden name rather than Esther's mother.

Offline Genealiza

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Re: Greenbaums, England to Cincinnati
« Reply #12 on: Monday 27 February 12 03:13 GMT (UK) »
For your consideration:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XRLP-JD4
Marriage of Nathan B Oliver to Esther Ann Greenway
17 Sep 1854
Trenton, Dodge, Wisconsin

----------------------------------------------

1860 Census:  Wisconsin, Dodge, Trenton
Nathan B. Oliver, 26, farm laborer, b. NY
Esther N      "       24, house duties, b. IL
Sarah E       "         5, b. WIS
Homer P      "         3, b. WIS
Isabelle       "         1/12, b. WIS

-----------------------------------------------

Widow's Pension Certificate # 83354
Widow's Class
Esther A Oliver now Wentworth, formerly widow of Nathan B. Oliver, private Co. C "16" WIS

------------------------------------------------

1870 Census:  Ohio, Hamilton, Cincinnati, ward 17
Oliver, Hester A, 34, b. WIS
           Homer P, 13, b. WIS
           Dora        10, b. WIS
           Elenora        1, b. WIS

-------------------------------------------------

1880:  Ohio, Hamilton, Cincinnati, ward 3
Johnson, Eliza, 56, widow, b. OH
Oliver, Mrs, 50, sister, widow, b. OH
           Ella, 11, b. OH
           Albert,  7, b. OH
           Alice, 3, b. OH


Offline Joseph L. Oliver

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Re: Greenbaums, England to Cincinnati
« Reply #13 on: Monday 27 February 12 04:00 GMT (UK) »
Honest to God...  My head feels like it is going to explode. 

The two census listings for Esther seen together in sequence can possibly make sense as being Albert Elsworth Oliver's mother, with the following notations:

"Hester" I beleive to be a misspelling of "Esther".  And Elenora, 1 year old in 1870, jives with "Ella, 11 years old" in the following Census in 1880.  But, What the HECK is the indication of the kids, and Esther, being born in WISCONSIN????  Esther in later census reports being born in England:


 
1870 Census:  Ohio, Hamilton, Cincinnati, ward 17
Oliver, Hester A, 34, b. WIS
           Homer P, 13, b. WIS
           Dora        10, b. WIS
           Elenora        1, b. WIS

-------------------------------------------------

1880:  Ohio, Hamilton, Cincinnati, ward 3
Johnson, Eliza, 56, widow, b. OH
Oliver, Mrs, 50, sister, widow, b. OH
           Ella, 11, b. OH
           Albert,  7, b. OH
           Alice, 3, b. OH

Note:  having many times studied the 1880 Census for "Mrs. Oliver" and her sister, it is my opinion that the information was not given by either Mrs. Oliver or her sister Eliza Johnson.  It must have been reported by a neighbor not familiar with these two ladies.  Albert and Alice are the correct ages compared to known fact, but Ella's age is 3 years too young.  Eliza Johnson and "Mrs. Oliver"'s ages are not correct either.  So, I give this Census info credit only for the basics (names, approx age for the adults, no reliability for places of birth).

Man do I have a headache.


Joe
Burke, Sutherland, Curtis, Cuter, Koplik

Offline Genealiza

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Re: Greenbaums, England to Cincinnati
« Reply #14 on: Monday 27 February 12 14:28 GMT (UK) »
You might want to send for her pension files, especially from Nathan B Oliver.

Information that can be found on a widow's pension application:

Proof of soldier's service
Proof of death
Proof of marriage - affadavits or certificates proved that the widow seeking the pension was, indeed married to the soldier.
Proof of children - when children are listed, you often will find copies of bible records or town records.

Declaration of a Widow for Restoration of Pension - when a second marriage revoked the pension and the death of the second husband left the widow once again without support.

Dropped from rolls - this record will give a date of death or other circumstance which required the widow to be dropped from the rolls. In this particular example, note the odd phrasing: "I have the honor to report that the name of the above-described pensioner who was last paid at $12, to Nov. 4, 1913, has this day been dropped from the roll because of death Nov. 23, 1913."

Some pension files with early certificate numbers may include a cover page to the file which lists the name of the soldier; company, regiment, and state of service; the name of the widow, often with her maiden name; and the names of any dependent children. It also lists which of the above documents are within the file.
----------------------------------

Index to Pension Files of Veterans who Served between 1861 and 1900

Oliver, Nathan B
Co. C, 16 regiment , Wis Inf

1865, July 3, widow class  application # 100584   
                                          certificate # 83354

1890, July 31, father          application  # 446513



Widow's Certificate
Certificate # 83354
Widows Class
Esther A Oliver now Wentworth, formerly wid. of Nathan B Oliver, private Co. C, "16" Wis
Consolidated with
Certificate # 444575
Widows Class

Pension files of Vets who served between 1861 and 1900

Wentworth, William A
Co. A, 7 regiment, Ohio Cav
1865, July 1, invalid, application # 75302   certificate # 53999
                    widow                     # 641733                 # 444575




From the widow date of filing on 3 July 1865, it would appear that Nathan B Oliver was already deceased.  I haven't found the exact date of enactment of Civil War pensions, but it would appear that it started in July of 1865, since William Wentworth applied as invalid status on 1 July 1865.


She may have used N B Oliver's pension for her support, since his death would probably have generated a larger pension than the invalid status of William Wentworth.



Offline shellyesq

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Re: Greenbaums, England to Cincinnati
« Reply #15 on: Monday 27 February 12 16:32 GMT (UK) »
1890, July 31, father          application  # 446513

I'm not super-familiar with the pension applications, but looking on the image of the index, for the part with the father, under "State From Which Filed", it appears to say S.D.  I would think that would be South Dakota.  I'm not sure if we're looking to go further back from Nathan, but if so, that might be a clue.

It looks like this is Nathan B. Oliver's burial - http://www.shilohbattlefield.org/cemetery/detail1.asp?GRAVE=557 

From what I can tell from Civil War databases, his residence was Beaver Dam, Wisconsin and he died of disease on 31 May 1862 at Pittsburgh Landing, Tennessee.

On the death certificate for Albert Oliver, I noticed that his Social Security number was listed on it.  If you were inclined to spend money on this confusing family, you could order Albert's original Social Security application, as explained towards the bottom of this page - http://rwguide.rootsweb.ancestry.com/lesson10.htm  It typically includes the parents' names, including mother's maiden name, and plae of birth.

Offline Joseph L. Oliver

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Re: Greenbaums, England to Cincinnati
« Reply #16 on: Monday 27 February 12 16:43 GMT (UK) »
Genealiza et al:

First, thank you for digging up this incredible stuff.  Second, I can barely digest it.  Third, What the heck is going on with Esther????

There are so many questions/conflicts dancing in my head, but right now I just want to put this out for others to mull over:

Why, if her husband Nathan Oliver died in 1862, then she married William Wentworth, would Esther state her name as "Oliver, widow of Nathan B." in the Cincinnati directory from at least 1886 until her death in 1915?  

But for two out of those years list her last name as "Wentworth"?

More, way more questions to come....

Joe
Burke, Sutherland, Curtis, Cuter, Koplik

Offline shellyesq

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Re: Greenbaums, England to Cincinnati
« Reply #17 on: Monday 27 February 12 16:54 GMT (UK) »
There's an article that gives a bit of history of city directories here:  http://www.progenealogists.com/citydirectories.htm  Apparently, there were canvassers who went around & got the information, similar to census takers.  Maybe the canvasser spoke to Esther on one occasion and, on another occasion, spoke to her daughter or son-in-law and got different information from each?