Bishop Family

[iwccc]

I am looking for information on Herbert John Vanables Bishop born in South Africa and married to Olga Vlotman.  Can any one help on how I can start searching this family tree .  I would also like to trace the family  back as  to when they left England.  Thank you

[Nookie]

Hi

I have found the following in the National archives.  As you have given no dates I am not sure if this is your Herbert.

DEPOT     VAB                                     SOURCE  MHG                                                                 
TYPE      LEER                                      VOLUME_NO                                                                   SYSTEM    01                                      REFERENCE B1099                                                                 PART      1                                                                     DESCRIPTION          BISHOP, HERBERT VENABLES.                                             STARTING  18920000                                                              ENDING    18920000   

If the dates fit you could order a copy through eggsa (see sticky notes).  If you could give possible dates of birth/marriage/death it would also help.

Good luck

[diplodicus]

Dates will really help.

It would probably help your cause if you could guess roughly when the family left England and from which part they might have originated.

Was HJ a first generation South African?

Assuming Vanables is a surname from the mother's side, this could help to narrow things a bit, especially if the parents were immigrants.

Anything else that might possibly be a clue (albeit vague)?

[iwccc]

Thanks for all the input to my questions.  I am currently trying to get some dates from South Africa. Hopefully when these come I will be able to track further.  Thanks again

[Kinsy]

Hi
Any idea when was Herbert John Vanables born?
There is a John Herbert Venables Bishop is our family tree - the names are so similar that I wonder whether they are related. JHV Bishop was born 1918 Barberton. His father Alfred John Bishop b.1864, a miner, was a Scottish colonial. His mother was Johanna Sophia MASSYN.

[iwccc]

thanks so much for your post - sounds like it could be the same one.  I will endeavor to check this out and reply again.  Much appreciated.

[iwccc]

Kinsy,   I'm not much further advanced.  Can't get dates of birth, death etc. from Sth. Africa - the relatives don't know them.
All I have is Herbert John Vanables (known as John) had a sister Rosemary (still no dates) but she was older than Herbert.  Her married name was O'Neill (still no dates)
The family say that Herbert (John) V. Bishop married an Olga but I notice that you have her as Helga E. Vlotman( I guess it could have been a nickname etc.) 
From South Africa I am told that the other side of the family are Vlotmans.
Is this still your family tree?   In anticipation with thanks

[pampoen]

Found this BISHOP Herbert John born 1916 Male left 1919 from Birkenhead bound for South Africa Cape. To view full details you need to buy credits. I found this at this link http://www.findmypast.co.uk/passengerListPersonSearchStart.action?redef=0 I typed in his first name surname sex and country South Africa that is all then hit enter. I also found this on the same link BISHOP R V born 1898 Female left 1921 London South Africa Durban (Port Natal. Could this be the sister?

Found this as well DEPOT VAB (Bloemfontein)  SOURCE    HG    TYPE      LEER  VOLUME_NO 7/5/1/52 SYSTEM    01 REFERENCE 79/1931 PART      1                                                                     DESCRIPTION          ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE. LUNATIC. PATIENT. HELGA EMMERENTIA                  VLOTMAN.  STARTING  19310000 ENDING    19310000                                                              REMARKS   BLOEMFONTEIN. At least now we know she landed up in an asylum in Bloemfontein.

Could Herbert have remarried? Found this DEPOT     TAB                                                                   SOURCE    MHG   TYPE      LEER     SYSTEM    01                                                                    REFERENCE 4729/74   PART      1  DESCRIPTION          BISHOP, HERBERT JOHN.STARTING  19740000  ENDING    19740000  REMARKS   SURVIVING SPOUSE ALICE JANETTE BISHOP.
 
I would apply for a copy of Helgas file as it may tell you who her children etcetera were.
To obtain pictures of documents held in the National Archives. Go to http://www.eggsa.org and select Content --> On Line Shop --> order Archive documents.  Once you have selected the currency, select "Enter the Shop" and then select "Archive photos" (in yellow on the blue band) and follow the instructions. They are only able to organise the photographing of documents from the South African Archives at Pretoria (TAB), Bloemfontein (VAB), Pietermaritzburg (NAB) and Durban(TBD). Other archives such as KAB require a researcher to transcribe documents by hand as no copying by camera or photocopying is allowed. Rates are cheap especially if ordering from overseas.
Hope this helps regards Derek.
                                                             


 

[Kinsy]

Well,that sounds promising - and exciting !
John Herbert's sister was Rosemary Massyn Bishop b.c1915 - and we didn't know who she'd married. Also didn't know that JHV wife's maiden name was Vlotman - wonder where you saw that info about Helga as it didn't come from me.
We have a copy of JHV's D/N and a couple of photos when he was a child - his father died when he was 2 and JHV died 3/8/1973 in Krugersdorp-Wes - according to his D/N he was married to Alice Janette ?? (maiden name not given) - at the time of his death he was living with another woman who signed his D/N - her name might have been J M Enties but the signature is difficult to decipher. John Herbert & Alice had 3 daughters: Maureen Jeanette (x J M Visagie), Rosemary Jane (x R Croucamp) and Kathleen Lorraine (x H Croucamp).
JHV's maternal g/parents (Massyn) were my maternal g/g/grandparents. How are you related to the Bishop family? There are 3 of us researching the Massyn family tree so the other 2 will be v.interested to hear about your posts.
If you would like copies of the DN/photos, let me have your email address via my Personal Messaging box. It will be good to swap info - if, that is, our JHVs are indeed the same person
Oh - new post just popped up re Vlotman - hooray - this is getting even more interesting !!