Mary or possibley Marion Barclay

[whaap]

The William Reid who is recorded as marrying a Mary Mcloud In
Portmoak Parish on 13 December 1844, is this the William Reid born
to David Reid & Marion Barclay?

The William Reid who is recorded as marrying a Mary Mcleod on
13 December 1844 in Ballingry, Fife, is this the William Reid born to
David Reid & Marion Barclay?

Is the child Mary Reid, born 3th December 1845 & christened 4th Jan
1846 in Cleish, the child of William Reid & Mary Mcloud that married
at Portmoak,or is the child born to the William Reid & Mary Mcleod
that married in Ballingry Fife?

Though the child is recorded to have been baptised 3d Jan 1846 the birth
 of the child may not have been in Cleish parish or in Kinross-shire.

Does the child, Mary Macleod, registered and baptised in Cleish have any
connection To either couple?

The three separate name spellings of

Mary Mcloud (Portmoak) Kinross-shire
Mary Mcleod (Ballingry, Fife)
Mary Macleod (Cleish) Kinross-shire

I presume death of William Reid, born to William Reid &
Marion Barclay, the relevant certificate records parents
names.

[LizD]

William Reid son of David Reid and Marion Barclay married Mary McLeod
children of William & Mary are :

Mary Reid born 3 Dec 1845 Cleish (Mary gives Cleish, Kinross-shire as place of birth on her Marrriage Certificate
Jane Reid born c1850 (born Australia probably at Pentland Hills, Victoria, Jane was alive in 1869 when her father died but I have been unable to find any trace of her.
Helen (Ellen) Reid born 1853 (no certificate found probably Pentland Hills, Victoria also)
William Reid born 1854 died 1855 Carngham, Victoria (birth certificate gives Father William's birth place as Portmoak, Kinross, Mother Mary's birth place as Lochore, Ballingry, Fife
William David Reid & John George Reid (TWINS) born 10 Jan 1856 Anakie (near Geelong), Victoria
(John George is alive at time of William's Death in 1869 but no sign of him after that)
James Adam Reid born 1858 Anakie
Frederick McLeod Reid born 1862 Anakie

Mother Mary Reid (nee McLeod) died 1862 Anakie, buried Geelong
Father William Reid died 1869 Kangatong Station, near Hawkesdale

I have photographs of William Reid & Mary McLeod, Helen Reid, William David Reid & James Adam Reid.  Also pictures of William & Mary's many Grandchildren

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William Reid & Mary Mcleod/Mcloud

Clearly two marriage ceremonies by the same couple on same day/month/year is
Unlikely, is it not?  Of course, it may be that there were only the one couple all along
for the two recorded events. Considering the time of year and the month, December,
they may not have been able to get to original scheduled venue. 
Though why were two events actually recorded as taking place in each parish record?

If the two recorded events applied to the same couple, which Parish
did they have ceremony in; Portmoak, Kinross-Shire or Ballingry, Fife-shire? This
question, under the above outlined circumstances, may appear to be a bit academic.

On the other hand, if there are two separate couples mentioned, how do you
differentiate?

As a scenario,
Two couples married, the Ballingry couple moved into Cleish, and had daughter
Mary. The couple that married in Portmoak moved out of the parish to another
county, or even country, before birth of any family was recorded.

If this was the case it would be so easy to jump to wrong William Reid when checking
genealogical line.

A positive differentiation from any other William Reid who married a
Mary McLeod/Mcloud would be for the D.C. (of 1869) to hold the parents
names of that particular William Reid.

If not, perhaps on papers, or information held on any movement documents, say assisted
passage records, if pertinent to circumstances. Of course I do not know if full information
on such documents would actually contain such details, apart from the basic.

It is not my intention to be negative to any research done, far from it. It may be that any and
all scenarios have been researched and followed and answered.

Burial in Fossaway Church Yard

I had image of burial headstone emailed to me regarding the family of
Adam Reid (born 1866). The head stone information encompasses two
separate lairs and relates to son of Adam Reid, born 1825.

Though five burials recorded on head stone; there is a sixth within related lairs.

I do not feel it appropriate to post image on RC, but will post
information held upon stone to any who has interest.

HEADSTONE INSCRIPTION

In loving memory of
Jane McGhie
Died 16th June 1944
Aged 73 years
Beloved wife of
Adam Reid
Died 30th Aug 1948
Aged 82 Years
Their daughter
Helen
Died 28th May 1984
Aged 86 years
Their son
David
Died 6th March 1989
Aged 77 Years
Their daughter
Christina
Died 29th September 2000
Aged 87 Years

Within the lairs there is a sixth burial, Mary Reid, Buried 21/1/1907 aged 3 weeks

Lair B 165 – Holds - Mary/Jane/Adam/Helen
Lair B 164 – Holds – David/ Christina

[LizD]

I don't think it was a rare thing for a couple to be married on the same day in two different places.  I have seen it a few times with the Scottish records on IGI   In this case William Reid was from Portmoak as stated on the marriage record and Mary McLeod (McLoud on image) was from the parish of Ballingry.  Birth certificate of their son William Reid born 1854 in Australia place of marriage is given as Kinross Dec 1844.  Daughter Mary gives birth place on her marriage as Cleish. 

[LizD]

In reference to other children of William Reid and Jean Paton.  I have the death certificate of John Reid 27 May 1859, Age 82, Piperpool, Saline, Fife.  Father William Reid farm servant, Jean Reid maiden name Paton.  Informant John Reid son of deceased.  In 1851 census John gives his birth place as Cleish.  Baptism date would co-ordinate with the Cleish one listed for William Reid and Janet Paton (name Janet given for 3 children born in Cleish) is Janet an acceptable version of Jean?  Any ideas?

[whaap]

Assisted Passage records hold two couples with near identical dates
of passage; Only a day date difference for one recorded passenger.
It is as if there is a shadow attached to William Reid & Mary McLeod.
Whether paper shadow or real?

[whaap]

John Reid D.C. of 1859 in relation to the Cleish birth of 1777.
It is regrettable that the recording has the omission of wife’s name.
The deceased being classified as widowed.
Perhaps the two previous census records, 1841 and 1851, could
clarify (provided the wife was alive) with answer.  The age of the son
who registered death would be a good indicator.

Once these answered it would go some way to try and verify marriage
Location. Perhaps the event was in Portmoak?

[whaap]

Reid Burials within Fossaway Church Yard.
   
Within individual burial Lairs these can hold up to four internments. Within family
burial plots the records may not cover the longer time period if the burials
were over sixty, seventy, or eighty years apart, in which case older
records have to be consulted. In older records there is a tendency not to
use lair numbers.

The last recorded burial in Plot Lair B187 - 1902, Adam Reid 76.
This would leave three previous burials.

The last burials recorded in plot lair B 189 - 1914, David Reid 61 Years
                      B 189  - 1942 Grace Reid (McGhie)
This would leave two burials unrecorded within lair.

The last recorded burials in Plot lair B 188 -1905, David Reid 2 ½ hours
                      B  188 -1915, Helen Houston 82 Years
                      B  188  -1948 James Reid 85 Years
I believe that those recorded are the only ones within lair B 188. I
Could be wrong!

Cassification Summery

B 187 - 1902 Adam Reid Born 1825
B 188 - 1915 Helen Houston Born 1829. Wife of Adam Reid

B 188 - 1848 James Reid Born 1863 Son of Adam Reid & Helen Houston
B 189 - 1942 Grace Reid (McGhie) Born 1867, Wife of James Reid

B 188 - 1905 David Reid Born 1905, son of George Reid & Helen Masterton Reid(Foster)
                
B 189 -1914 David Reid Born 1853, Son of Adam Reid & Helen Houston

As can be seen burials of wife and husbands were not within same lair number.
As each lair was filled next was used. It is a case of use in order of demise.

[whaap]

With regards John Reid, born 1777 Cleish, There is a John Reid who married a Jean Lauder in Portmoak on 15th December 1813.  The subsequent family recorded born to this couple in Portmoak are;

•   David Reid, born 24 August 1814
•   John Reid,   born 23 July 1818
•   Margaret Reid 25th March 1821
•   Margaret Reid 18th February 1823

If this is the John Reid (born 1777) recorded to have died in Saline, Fife in 1859, he would have been 36 years of age at time of marriage. The second son john would be the recorder of his death.

The death certificate of John Reid (Born 1818) should hold his parents names etc.


With reference to other children that may be from William Reid and Jean Paton.

In Cleish 1779, the twins born to William Reid & Janet Paton, i.e. Adam and Isabel, There is a marriage of an Isobel Reid recorded in Portmoak 10th March 1811 to Andrew Harley. If this is the sister of John Reid born Cleish she would have been 32 years of age.

There are no children recorded to have been born in Kinross-Shire to Isobel Reid & Andrew Harley,
not found by me anyway.

The first birth I have found recorded to an Andrew Harley & Isobel Reid is in Saline, Fife on 25th April 1813.

This couple may or may not be the couple married in Portmoak in 1811. For there is a marriage recorded on 16th April 1812 in Saline between Andrew Harley & Isobel Reid. This gives an eleventh month gap between Portmoak ceremony and last.

The D.C. of this Isobel Reid should hold parents names, if she died after 1855 that is. Long shot I know, but it would go a long way to confirm that the Janet Paton & Jean Paton are the same.