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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Breconshire => Topic started by: acer on Wednesday 01 October 08 12:07 BST (UK)
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Hi All
First time on
Can anyone help me find the parents of Enoch Jones born 1845 died jan17 -1929 lived in Gwenddwr all his life i think, maried to Margaret had at least ten children I think someone on ancestry.co.uk is looking for the same family,name withheld would be very greatfull for anything
Acer
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Hi,
Could you tell me where Gwenddwr is?
Kathleen
OK It's in Wales, right?
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Looks like Breconshire - I'll move it there to see if those with local knowledge can help.
Welcome to RootsChat. :)
Nell
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Hi Acer ;D
Could he be this one?
1851 Census
HO107 p2488 f351 p4
Cefnhirwain, Gwenddwr, Breconshire
John JONES Head 37 Farmer of 80 acres born Brecon LLandefalley
Mary Wife 33 farmer's wife, born Gwenddwr
Ann Dau 7 farmer's daughter, born Gwenddwr
Enoch Son 5 farmer's son, born Crickadarn
William Son 3 farmer's son, born Crickadarn
John Serv 25 farm servant,
Evan Watkins Serv 15 farm servant
Ann Williams Serv 15 house servant
Kind regards
Gaie
Added: Glad to see you found the "New Topic" button ;D ;D
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Hallo Acer,
Welcome to Rootschat :)
1851 Census: HO107, Vol 2488, Folio 351, Page 4
Parish of Gwenddwr
John 37 b. Llandefalley, Farmer 80 Acres
Mary 33 b. N. Gwenddwr
Ann 7 b. "
Enoch 5 b. Crickadarn, Breconshire
William 3 b. "
Evan Watkins 15 Servant
John Garry 25 Servant
Ann Williams 15 House Servant
Viv
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1871 Census:
RG10; Piece: 5575; Folio: 54; Page: 2;
Living in Gwendwwr North, House name: Vron(?)
Enoch, 26 Farmer of 110 Acres, employing 1 boy
Margaret, 23 b. Merthyr Cynog
Mary Jane, 1 b. Gwendwwr
Eliza Ann, 1 month, dito
Mary Lewis, 20, General Servant
Rees Thomas, 17 Farm Servant
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I'll work from the other end ;) ;D
1901 census
RG13 p5164 f26 p2
Abergwosddwr, Gwenddwr
Enoch JONES Head 56 Farmer Employer b Gwenddwr
Margaret JONES Wife 52
Mabel M G JONES Dau 19 Farmer's Daughter
Gilbert Dodd JONES Son 17 Farmer's Son
Cardoc Dodd JONES Son 13 At school
Xantia Dau 10 JONES At school
Jane DODD Single Aunt 77 Dressmaker
William JONES Single Uncle 54 Living on own means
all born Gwenddwr
Thomas PRICE Serv 18 Cowman on farm Radnorshire Abindr
Kind regards
Gaie
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1891 Census
RG12 p 4567 f60 p2
?Eron Gwenddwr
Enoch JONES Head 42 Farmer b Gwenddwr
Margaret JONES Wife 40
Elizabeth Ann JONES Dau 20 Assistant Dom
John Stephen JONES Son 14 Assistant Ag
Enoch Owen JONES Son 14 Assistant Ag
William Luther JONES Son 12 Scholar
Gilbert Dodd JONES Son 9 Scholar
Gertrude Edith JONES Dau 5 Scholar
Caradog Dodd JONES Son 4
?antia Mfanwy JONES Dau xmonths
all born Gwenddwr
Price MORGAN Serv 21 Farm servant Radnorshire
James DAVIES Serv 28 Farm servant Gwenddwr
Kind regards
Gaie
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Acer, you could look the 1881 census up for yourself at familysearch, the LDS website; it's good practice ;D
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=census/search_census.asp
Choose 1881 British Census
Name: Enoch Jones
Country: Wales County: Breconshire
Birth Year 1845
Birth Year Range: 2
Click on the Enoch Jones 1881 British Census
On the right hand side click on View Household.
Kind regards
Gaie
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:) thank you all so much I can't believe how help full everyone is. I started this because my greatgrandmother Margaret Jones (DODD) Born1849 died August26 1935 came from Beili-heulog also Gwenddwr her family go back to Ireland, or so I was told. Would love to know if this is write as my husband comes from there Going to try what you advised
Thanks so much all
acer
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Hi Acer
Well, you're very lucky having an ENOCH Jones, rather than a William, John, Thomas Jones in the family; it made it so much easier to track him ;D ;D
I don't know if you have Margaret's birth certificate, but there is this one I found on the FreeBMD site; if you're not familiar with this resource, it's as it says it is, free, and you can search the registers of births, marriages and deaths in England & Wales from Sept quarter 1839 onwards. Most (or could be all) of the earlier volumes are transcribed; it starts to get sparse from about the beginning of the 20th century, but is a very useful tool. Just remember to put surnames in first box ;) I'm sure we've all put christian names in that box before and come up with nothing ::)
FreeBMD Site:
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/
Birth Jun Qtr 1849 Brecknock Vol 26 Page 317
DODD Margaret
So if you haven't already got this one, you will find out her parents' names, including mother's maiden name, date and place of birth and father's occupation (that's if he's named!).
And this is the main page to the familysearch site:
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp
A word of warning; always check out info on this site; the entries that are extracted entries ie taken from parish registers, are reasonably accurate. Submitted entries ie ancestral trees, individual entries etc , should always be taken with a pinch of salt - they may or may not be correct.
Do you need the 1861 census that was deleted from an earlier post (we can't copy and paste stuff from data providers on the web - we have to type it out again - copyright issues ;))?
Happy hunting!!
Kind regards
Gaie
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Hi Caie
Yes please i would like the1661 census if it is not to much trouble
I could spend all day on here, but dinner preperation awaits
Bye for now Acer
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1861 Census
RG9 p 4207 f 57 p4
?Hron, North Gwenddwr, Breconshire
John JONES Head 48 Farmer of 100 acres, 1 servant, b Merthyr Cynog
Mary Wife 48 b North Gwenddwr
Ann Dau 17 b Norh Gwenddwr
Enoch Son 15 b Crickadarn
William Son 13 b Crickadarn
Rice Hall Serv Unm 18 Farm Servant b ? Radnorshire
Catherine Donovan Serv Unm 21 Dairy Maid b Ireland
Kind regards
Gaie
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8) Thanks Gaie
Very interesting especially that John Jones was born in Merther Cynog and the fact they had an Irish maid
I believe his son Enoch's wife Margaret descends from Ireland and was related to John Dodd
I would like to find a John Dodd of Beiu-Heulog Gwenddwr
Born Sept 14--1846
Died April 19--1917
Wife Margaret Dodd
Born Sept 4--1936
Died March 29--1913
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Well, you've definitely picked very helpful ancestors from Wales ;D ;D
That 10 year age difference makes such a difference:
1901 Census RG13 5164 35 4
Bailehanlog, Gwenddwr, Breconshire
John DODD Head 54 Tar Collector and Imperial Shoemaker, b Breconshire Merthyr Cynog, spoke Welsh & English
Margaret Wife 64, b Breconshire Gwenddwr, spoke English
Jones C Son 23 Farmer, b " ", spoke English
Minnie Pugh Serv 15 General Servant Domestic, b " ", spoke English
Perhaps somebody else would like to check John's occupation, but that's what it looks like :)
1891 Census RG12 4567 61 4
Pengwain, Gwenddwr, Breconshire
John DODD Head 44 Assistant Overseer, b Merthyr Cynog, spoke both
Margaret Wife 54 b Gwenddwr, spoke English
Jones Cynog Son 13 Scholar b Gwenddwr, spoke English
The Pughs are next door with Minnie.
Kind regards
Gaie
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1881 Census RG11 5455 71 5
No 3 Gwenddwr Village, Breconshire
John DODD Head 34 (Ancestry have mistranscribed it as 44) Shoemaker Merthyr Cynog
Margaret Wife 44 Shoemaker's Wife, Gwenddwr
Jones Cynog Son 3 Scholar (!), Gwenddwr
John WEEKS Boarder 56 Shoemaker, Crickadarn
1871 RG10 5575 55 4
Ty ynog Waen(?) Gwenddwr North, Breconshire
William DODD Head 49 Farmer & Shoemaker 11 acres b Breconshire Gwenddwr
Ann Wife 50 "" ""'s wife b Gwenddwr
John Son 24 Shoemaker's Son b Merthyr Cynog
David LAWRENCE Serv 19 Shoemaker Gwenddwr
I haven't found John in earlier censuses yet; was hoping to see him with sister(?) Margaret who married Enoch, but they're being elusive.
Possible marriage for John & Margaret:
Dec Qtr 1876 Builth 11b 191
John DODD Margaret JONES (the only two names listed)
There is another one in Dec Qtr 1876 Neath 11a 787, for a John Dodd and a Margaret Sophia Lloyd, but they appear in later censuses as John Dodd and Margaret S Dodd, so I think the first one could be right. Builth is a better registration district as well, seeing as they both originate from that area.
Kind regards
Gaie
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thanks Gaie
The first one is defiantly the right Dodds they are buried in the same chapel yard
as Enoch and Margaret john Jones gave the ground for the chapel and i was told money to build it. Enoch gave the ground for the grave yard.
John and Margaret Dodd
Enoch and Margaret Jones where the first family's to be buried there and they were "family".
I think Margaret and John were brother and sister and came from Ireland with there parents I know cobblers and shoemakers have been in the Dodds for years If you look back 1901 census there was a Jane Dodd aunt 77years living with Margaret Jones (Dodd) at the Vron Have a cousin I am going to try to talk to.
Acer thanks again
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Oh good, so at least we're on the right track ;D
I'm having difficulty in finding the Dodds in earlier censuses; there are other Dodds in the area, possibly related to your ones. It's not a very common name for Breconshire in those times.
There's a possible 1841 entry, which could be John's father William with his own parents:
1841 HO107 1370 8 7 6 and 7
Tynanin? North Gwenddwr
William DODD 65 Farmer, looks like N in "Whether born in same county"
Margaret Wife 45 Y
William Son 20 no occupation stated Y
So perhaps this William Dodd came from Ireland?
Possible marriage for William and Ann, John's parents:
Sep Qtr 1846 Builth Vol 26 Page 419
William DODD
Ann WILLIAMS
Glad to hear your cousin is still around; it's amazing what info they can come up with. And I would recommend getting some later birth and/or marriage certificates so that you can confirm or discount the census info that we've found.
Kind regards
Gaie
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HI Gaie You are defiantly on the right line,in the 1871 census it was Tynwaen have an idea where that was. Have found out that William Dodd 39years married Ann Williams (Middle Gletwin farm in Gwenddwr),they had three children
MARGARET 11years is she Enoch's wife
MARY 6 and JOHN
There is also William Dodd married Margaret Morgan three children John JANE is she the aunt dressmaker at the vron in1901 census and WILLIAM
Some of this information has come from Powy's family history Margaret Morgan died 20 May 1864 77years buried at Baluhalog chapel have no paper work on any of this
These are the Dodds I am looking for, but where do we go back to Ireland every one I have spoken to understood we did
Any more help you can give would be really appreciated
ThanksACER
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Hi Acer
Perhaps now is the time to buy some certificates, as I've already suggested, just to check that we are pursuing the right families.
Birth: JONES Enoch Mar Qtr 1845 Builth (includes Gwenddwr & Crickadarn, as noted for his birthplace in censuses) Vol 26 Page 302
is a possibility. This will confirm his mother's maiden name so that you can look for a marriage for his parents.
Kind regards
Gaie
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Hi gaie
Where do i go to purchase Enoch and Margaret's marage certificate I know his fathers name was John and mother was Mary something, it is Marget,s side that should take me back to Ireland so will her father or mother be on it.
Thanks Acer
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Hi Acer
This is the GRO website for purchasing certificates:
https://www.gro.gov.uk
You have to register, but that's so they can e-mail confirmation of your order. Each certificate costs £7.
The marriage reference for ordering is:
Oct/Nov/Dec Qtr 1868
District: Builth
Volume: 11b
Page: 199
so click yes when asked if you know what the reference is (or however they word it!!).
This is for the possible marriage of Enoch JONES and Margaret DODD.
Marriage certificates have spaces for the bride and groom's fathers' names and occupations.
Do let us know how you get on :)
Kind regards
Gaie
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Hi Gaie,
Sorry i have not been around for awhile Have had some contact with Enoch's oldest daughter Elisabath's descendants who are also trying to find his father John's grave He apparently died at Abergwendwr he had a brother called William born 1817 also llandefally. Where would be the best place to look to find there parents
Thanks Acer
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Hi Acer
Good to see you back again!!
I'll have to read through this thread again to see where we'd got up to. So you're looking for the parents of John Jones and William Jones, possibly brothers, born Llandefalle/y, is that right?
According to the Hugh Wallis site, http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers.htm , which allows us to search the IGI Batch Numbers for named parishes, the earliest baptisms for Joneses listed in Llandefalle (1772-1847) are c1840 ???
In the 1861 Census John, Enoch's father, gives a birthplace of Merthyr Cynog, and there is a John Jones christened 31st October 1813 to John Jones and Margaret. No William is showing for the same parents. Of course, I don't know if this is the right family, and Merthyr Cynog is about 7-8 miles from Llandefalle across country....
Kind regards
Gaie
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Hi Gaie
Thanks for the reply. Been told John died third August 1899 at Abergwenddwr I found a Jones Tree on Genusreunited done by Barrie his wife replied he sadly died two years ago she says he descends from Johns brother William who was born 1817 William is a family name and she also said there fathers was called John Not sure she is right although birthdates make it a possibility Was given a phone number last night of distant relation who may have some information
Bye for now Margaret.
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Hi Acer
My first time on so hope this goes ok. I think it is my tree on Ancestry if you want to contact me via there. John Dodd died 19 April 1917 aged 70 and is buried at Bryn Sion, Gwenddwr as is his wife Margaret (nee Jones).
John Jones & His wife Mary (nee Davies) & son William are all buried at St Marys, Crickadarn. Mary's parents Enock & Ann (nee Jones) Davies are also at St Marys. I have pictures of the graves for a lot of the Jones/Dodd families and certificates to share. :)
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Hi Mev
Yes we are on the same family do you go down the Jones side or the Dodds
Only today I found out from someone else where John and Mary where buried he died at my home (where I was born)they had three children Ann Enoch and William I believe John,s father was a William Jones mother Ann --- I hope we will be able to help each other. I have found this site has some really clever people who seem to be able to find most things :D
Bye for now Acer
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Hi Acer
I think that will have come from me as I emailed the info to another contact yesterday morning before registering on here. Enoch Jones was my GGGrandfather through his daughter Eliza Ann. Would I be right in thinking that you are descended from Cynog Dodd?
Mev
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Hi Mev
No Enoch was my Great Grandfather His son Cradoc Jones was my Grand father. Abergwenddwr ring any bells with you that was my home, you are obviously a much younger generation I am also in contact with someone descending from Elisabath Ann on ancestry My mothers Brother married one of Cynog Dodds Daughters and as you now Enoch's wife Margaret was a Dodd I am trying to go back to Ireland with the Dodds Do you know anything about that ?
Bye for now acer
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Hi Acer
Don't forget Eliza Ann was 16 years older than Cradoc and my grandfather was 2nd born & father 1st born so probably not that big a gap. :) Abergwenddwr goes back with the Jones's to 1871 census. I am in contact with a Margaret who met with Antonia & Una 2 days ago ...that is who I gave the John Jones burial info to.
I had heard from someone that the Dodd's came from Ireland originally but as yet haven't been able to confirm this. The 1841 census does say that William Dodd c1776 was born outside of Breconshire. I have a copy of his marriage from the PR no parents given unfortunately but it does state that William was a Yeoman (William & Margaret both made their mark and it was witnessed by D Cadwader & Solomon Davies). So maybe as he owned his land there may be some info at Lllandrindod. Unfortunately I don't manage to get there very often. Also I would of expected him to have left a Will but have had no luck locating one as yet.
Mev
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Hi Mev
Sorry I have mixed you up with names Acer and Margaret are the same person
My fault in a hurry and it was automatic. Do you still live in Wales I am also in contact with another descendant of Elizabeth's she has a lot of photo's of graves on another site Not sure which of Elizabeth's children she comes from, how many children did Elizabeth have
Bye for now Acer
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Hi Acer
Think we are already communicating via email. Eliza Ann Jones had 4 children and my G Grandfather was the 2nd child. She died 9 April 1945 and is buried in Hephzibah Baptist Chapel at Erwood. The grave is on lefthandside just after you enter. The only info I have on Caradoc is that he married I believe Sarah Williams and I have Vivian Caradoc 1913-1991 and Elizabeth Gertrude 1918-1918 as children. They are all buried at Bryn Sion, Gwenddwr.
Mev
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Hi Margaret & Mev ;D
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Hi Margaret & Mev ;D
So glad you two have linked up - keep going ;)
Kind regards
Gaie
Ooh, don't know what happened there, must be a gremlin in the system ::)
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Hi Gaie
Thanks for your help...it confirmed a lot of what I had found out. Took me a while to register on here.
Mev
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Hi Caie,
I think there were some gremlins around this morningcould not get in either
Still stuck on the Dodd's have been told a brother and sister came over some where between 1740 and 1790 and went to a place called Gellirhydd north Gwenddwr possible as servants Have you seen that any where.
Thanks Acer,
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Hi Mev.
If you look at the Jones family on this site you will find quite a lot of information
Gaie has been a brilliant help
I have Elizabeth your g g Gran with two boys two girls Arianwen, Wyndham, Bowgott married Rachel Davies new them quite well and Hilda do not know in what order they were born
Cradoc Jones had seven children Elizabeth who died at three months Vivian Glyn Thyeza Mary Gwlithyn,there is a baby buried with Sarah and Cradoc but not named Have you seen Enochn and Margaret's grave some of there children are named on it but not all buried there
Bye for now Acer
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Hi Acer
I have sent you a PM re the info I have and look forward to hearing from you.
Best wishes
Mair
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Margaret and John Dodd's graves are in the chapel yard in Gwenddwr.
Margaret born sept 14 1836 died march 29 1913
John born sept 14 1846 died April 19 1917
Hope this is of help.
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Hi Mandy
Thanks for that I already have pictures of the graves in Gwenddwr Chapel. I need to go to Bailyheulog when the weather improves as there are a few of the Dodd family there.
Best wishes
Mev
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Hi Mev
In the book Hills and Sunny Pastures written by Erwood Women's Institute there is a picture of John Dodd on horseback with his two granddaughters. Probably fits in with your research somewhere. Its a great book full of information and pictures of Erwood and all the surrounding parishes.
I have come across the name Dodd frequently in Gwenddwr on gravestones, while I have been trying to untangle the dozens of Griffiths family members, which i have been researching.
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Hi Mandy
It is a good book. My G Grandfather Samuel Evans and his father Evan are both in the book. I have a Griffiths family in my tree don't know if it ties in with yours.
William T Griffiths born abt 1851 married Mary Ann Bowcott & they had 7 children - Mary Jane, William T, Eleanor A M, Clara E, David John, Laura Ann M & Edgar B.
best wishes
Mev
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Hi
William Griffiths was the son of Thomas Griffiths of the Gurnos, Gwenddwr. Thomas was a brother to my ancestor John Griffiths b. 1805. John married Elinor Davies in 1829. I am descended from their son David a few generations down the tree!
Best wishes Mandy
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Hi Mandy
My link is through the Bowcott side. Mary Ann's Grandfather was William Bowcott of Vron, Gwenddwr and his daughter Mary who married David Davies was my GGG Grandmother
Best wishes
Mev
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Bump this one in case Acer is still around...
Hi :)
I'm related to the Dodds through Vivian and know some people who may be able to help you. I'm also interested in tracing the family history so would be good to share knowledge if you're still on the hunt!
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Hi
I have sent a PM and hopefully will hear from you soon.
Mev
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Got your message kt_j63 are you a close relation to vivian I am. I have guite a lot of information on Jones and dodd family would be happy to share
Acer
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Hi Mev & Acer
Mev - I have replied to your PM
Acer - I can't PM you yet as I am a new member! However I am a grandaughter to Vivian - how are you related? If you want to get in touch direct you can get my email addy from Mev
Katie
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HI kt_j63
Got message off mev we have been in contact a couple of years Will ring your dad
acer
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Hallo Acer,
Welcome to Rootschat :)
1851 Census: HO107, Vol 2488, Folio 351, Page 4
Parish of Gwenddwr
John 37 b. Llandefalley, Farmer 80 Acres
Mary 33 b. N. Gwenddwr
Ann 7 b. "
Enoch 5 b. Crickadarn, Breconshire
William 3 b. "
Evan Watkins 15 Servant
John Garry 25 Servant
Ann Williams 15 House Servant
Viv
[Hi, I have a photo of the Jones Family from the Vron at Gwenddwr I can share and the Williams from Crickadarn]
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Hi...this thread is fantastic! I'm also trying to find the Irish connection too. I'm Margaret's brother (John Dodd 1846-1917), Sons (john cynog dodd), daughter's (Laura Mary Dodd), great grandaughter. I was always told that margaret and john came over from ireland. It's all so hard to recall, but I can't go beyond that and the records have dried up for me. I have managed to trace most of my family tree back to 1787 at it's earliest, and am happy to share my saved records if anyone would like...and if you guys have anything to help me too I'd be really grateful (I have census info, but no photos as of yet). As far as new information for this thread goes, I was told 'we' have a family gravesite for the Dodd's in Ireland, and some close links with Cork, though I am not sure if that's where the actual graves are.
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I am Laura Powell (Dodd's) niece Do you know any of her children I moved to the north of Ireland last year Also had always been told the Dodd's came from Ireland but failed to get that far Would love to know if it is true
Acer
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Hi, I would be really interested to have any information in relation to the Fron Farm in Gwenddwr. Enoch Jones and Margaret Dodd are my 2nd great grandparents. I lived on the Fron ( Conway Jones is my dad). I have been doin my family history on Ancestry.
Many thanks