RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: Palmira on Friday 12 February 10 23:51 GMT (UK)
-
My Gt Grandparents William Robert HELMAN and Rachel HILL were married here 23 March, 1867. I have copy of M/C.
Are there any Parish records available for this period, and would they give any further information than that on the M/C. ?
I know there have been many buildings on the site, but is it possible there could be photos of the same for 1867?
Rachel's father was Richard HILL, farmer.
Any suggestions for further research to discover info re Richard HILL would be appreciated.
Palmira
-
records for St. Andrews RC are available (free) on http://www.irishgenealogy.ie/index.html although I dont see a Helman/Hill marriage listed there at the moment. There's also a Church or Ireland parish of that name... these records are not included on that website at the moment.
If Richard Hill was a farmer I doubt he lived in that parish - it has been built up city area for many years.
Shane
-
Good morning,
Found this entry, if you have not got this allready maybe you should try looking at records for Co Laois (Queens Co)
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=igi/search_IGI.asp&clear_form=true
WILLIAM ROBERT HELLMAN
Birth: 18 Oct. 1867 , Laoighis, Ireland
Parents William Robert HELLMAN & Rachel HILL
-
The St. Andrews church of Ireland building has been preserved and is now a tourist office - see photo (http://www.tropicalisland.de/ireland/dublin/trinity_college/images/DUB%20Dublin%20-%20St%20Andrews%20Church%20in%20St%20Andrews%20Street%203008x2000.jpg)
Records of baptism survive from 1877 and marriages from 1845, and are held in the Representative Church Body Library in Rathfarnham in Dublin (source:Ryans). I suspect these will be added to the IrishGenealogy website at some stage.
I've seen a few parishes where some additional details (mother's full name, and parents addresses) were recorded for marriages - both were in RC records (St. Mary's Marlboro St, and Holmpatrick Co. Dublin). Recording of the additional details was intermittent and seemed to depend on which priest was in place at the time.
Shane
-
Shane,
You are a marvel!
Thank you so much for the photo of the parish Church of St Andrew, and the interesting info about its use today.
Much appreciated.
Palmira
-
For further info (and input, hopefully) see article I created on Wikipedia:
St. Andrew's Church, Andrew St., Dublin
Don
-
Don,
Many thanks for your reply.
I looked up the Wikepedia article.
I don't have anything to add other than that my G Gparents were married there in 1867.
Appreciate your interest.
Regards
Palmira
-
Gormangenealogy,
Many thanks for your post.
Yes I do have this info re William Robert HELMAN junior and his brothers and sister all born Ballinakill.
My grandfather was James Henry HELMAN b 1870.
As I am in Australia I have found Irish research very difficult over the last forty years, but through RootsChat, this last twelve months I have had some quite spectacular results!
Appreciate your interest.
Palmira
-
Rachel's father was Richard HILL, farmer.
The marriage cert should also give his address ?? Which would give you something to work on
It should also give you their addresses in Dublin and what their jobs were.
The witnesses are sometimes useful
Afraid in Ireland you have to squeeze every last drop of information out of what you have!
I am not sure if what you have is the marriage cert handed to them by the church and kept in the family, or the civil cert bought from Roscommon GRO recently.
-
Corisande,
Many thanks for your reply. attached is P/C f what I have as a MC. The number is 147 and the fathers' occupations are Gardener and Farmer (these are cut off the scanned copy).
I just wondered if the church records would show any more!
Cheers from down-under
Palmira
Moderator comment: only small portions of certificates may be posted to assist with deciphering handwriting.
-
I doubt the church record will show any more detail than this civil cert.
keep an eye for any updates on the IrishGenealogy website mentioned earlier... they could add details for the CofI St. Andrews at some stage.
A little strange that Rachel married in the city if she was living in Donabate...
Might be worth checking for Hill details in the North County Dublin area on Griffth's valuation, and also on the pay-website of the IFHF which cover this part of Dublin quite well.
Shane
-
You have certainly got a lead to the Hills there at Donabate
Griffiths
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=placeSearch
Does not show any hills in "Donabate, Donabate" but I have not checked all the townlands. Treat for you!
And the certificate does confirm Church of Ireland
And Shane, I think that is a church cert, rather than a civil cert!
-
And, if someone else has this tree (and you do not know about it) could save you a lot of work if you contact them
http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/11121260/person/-523313719?ssrc=
Has you Helman and Hill marriage
-
That's the format I have for early Civil marriage certs .. I've a few the same.. 1854/1847 etc
Shane
-
Lots of Hills in North Co Dublin on ..
http://dublinnorth.brsgenealogy.com/search.php
but no Rachel born after 1844 - could be earlier?
eadaoin
-
That Ancestry tree that I refer to above, suggests bot were born in Ballinakill, and does give place and year of death for both.
-
eadaoin,
Many thanks for your post.
Rachel was born in c 1840. Where I do not know.
Palmira
-
Corisande,
Thank you for your interest.
William and Rachel lived in Ballinakill from 1867 to 1873. Rachel died in 1874.
They had four children born in Ballinakill and a fifth in Mount Kennedy. Only two of the boys survived to adulthood; one of whom was my grandfather James Henry HELMAN.
I don't have access to the site you quoted but will try to gain same at the library next week.
I do appreciate your interest and assistance.
Cheers from Down-under
Palmira
-
I don't have access to the site you quoted but will try to gain same at the library next week.
Certainly save you a lot of work and get you some new relations if you can contact them :)
-
I don't have access to the site you quoted but will try to gain same at the library next week.
Not sure about present situation but Ancestry Library Edition didn't used to have family trees available although historical records section was there.
-
....They had four children born in Ballinakill and a fifth in Mount Kennedy.....
I see their 5 children on IGI - I think that place of birth for George in Co. Wicklow could be Newtownmountkennedy, which is near to Kilpedder on the main road between Dublin and Wicklow town.
There's a probable matching record on the Civil index in Rathdrum registration district - George Helman / Rathdrum / 1873 / Vol 12 / Page: 934.
Shane
-
I have sent a pm to the owner of the ancestry tree, and suggested that they post here so that Palmira and they can link up
-
A friend looked up the ancestry link for me and I now know who it is that is researching my HELMAN family.
It is a cousin of mine with whom I have been corresponding for some time, but who never told me she had posted the HELMAN TREE on ancestry.com
Many thanks to all who have been so helpful. It is especially great when someone replies who knows the localities concerned and can see reasons for circumstances which elude those who don't know.
I am especially indebted to Shane and Corisande for their interest and helpful advice.
PALMIRA
-
Hi there,
I have been in touch with the office lady at St. Andrew's Chruch and if you would like her contact details send me a private message.
She has been of great help to me.
Regards
vicky
-
ref church records
i have found that certs dont always show the right information and its always best to look at the church records
i have a record stating that a relative was living in liverpool at time of marriage how ever checking with the church i found that his brother was a witness and the home address was blessington street dublin for both men
always worth checking out the church records
regards martin
-
Thanks Martin!
I did follow through with this some time agoand viewed the Parish records for my great grandparents.
Appreciate you comment.
Palmira
Ken :)
-
My great grandmother Rachel HILL married William Robert HELMAN in Dublin in 1867. Have M/C andD/C for Rachel and William and all relative info re their children. She was born c1840 and died 1874.
What has eluded me is her birth record. I know from M/C her father was Richard HILL a farmer.
Both Rachel and William were connected with Newbridge House, Donnabate.
Have been searching for years without success. A Joseph HILL was employed at Newbriddge and George HILL was a witness to the marriage. Have researched both these withiut finding a definite connection to Rachel.
Any further suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
PALMIRA
-
for reference Church of Ireland
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=d-59-3-2-073
-
Hi
I looked for other Hill marriages around that time, in case Rachel's siblings cropped up.
On 8 Apr 1864 in St Peter's CoI, Dublin, there was a marriage of Jacob Hill, Gardener, of Lower Kevin Street, son of Richard Hill, to Ellen Hannan.
There is also the marriage of a Joseph Hill of 29 Pembroke Road, again son of Richard Hill.
All three are strong biblical names - could they be siblings? It might be worth checking them out as you may get a lead here.
I noticed the Death of a Richard Hill, age 77, on 7 Apr 1861. Apparently this is in the Clontarf Church Register. As Clontarf is close to Donabate, could this be Rachel's father. Have you checked the Register to see what it says.
Regards
-----
-
Me again...
The Richard Hill who died in 1861 had an address at 2 Mountjoy Place, Dublin.
Also looking at Griffiths Valuation:-
Richard Hill is listed at No. 2 Mountjoy Place and his Immediate Lessors were "Reps. Ml. Stapleton"
Reps of Ml. Stapleton listed next door at No. 1 but Immed. Lessor was "Rev Augustus W. West"
Seems there was a Church connection between these two properties and I wonder if this Richard could indeed have been the father of Rachel (and given his children biblical names)
These properties were in St. George's Parish.
Just a thought.....
Cheers
-
LH,
Many thanks. We (Cousin in NZ) have done research on Joseph but found nothing concrete.
We've never been able to find which Richard was really ours. Your suggestions have been most helpful.
Palmira
-
Joseph Hill married Anna Ruggsega ? or Ruggsear 1855 st Peters Dublin
by 1867 he was in Donabate
unamed female
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1867/03498/2285901.pdf
1901 born Co Meath
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Donabate/Donabate/1266651/
1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Donabate/Donabate/5589/
daughter Rebecca married Henry O'Neill 1883 note the witness Ida Hill
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1883/10950/8001866.pdf
Ida Hill appears to have married the same man 1890 though he does not say he is a widower
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1890/10700/5900531.pdf
Henry George O'Neill born 1892 Dollymount
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1892/02359/1881270.pdf
Will index for Richard Hill 1861
http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014884/005014884_00080.pdf
-
As Rachel's death was recorded in Rathdrum you may possibly find the gravesite and headstone. The birthdate could possibly be recorded on the headstone. There is also a George Helman Rathdrum (died age 0) 1874..
http://forebears.io/ireland/leinster/wicklow/rathdrum#cemeteries
there is a topic "Possible burial places for Rathdrum Area?" on this site
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=478840.0
-
Mention of a Rev. Richard Hill in Richard's Will is interesting. Is this another church connection?
Cheers
-
Irishgenealogy has the birth of George Helman on 8 Aug 1873 to William Helman, Gardener, Mount Kennedy (Newtownmountkennedy?) and his wife Rachel, formerly HILL.
This is most likely both the Baby George and his Mother, Rachel Helman who are registered in Rathdrum as dying 1874.
Cheers
LH
-
Just noticed this is a DUPLICATE of an earlier query on the same family:-
Threads merged.
-
mentioned on family search
http://www.familysearch.org
23.3.1867 Dublin Castle
-
I must apologise for failing to mention that I had previously posted some info re Rachel HILL.
It has been so frustrating not being able to connect her to her birth family.
I really appreciate the time and effort members have made to try to assist me.
Many thanks.
PALMIRA
-
Wow....there's a lot of information there!
Saves others using time to find what has already been found if previous threads have been found
Maybe a good idea to ask for threads to be merged into one ??
Threads merged.
-
Hi
I looked for other Hill marriages around that time, in case Rachel's siblings cropped up.
On 8 Apr 1864 in St Peter's CoI, Dublin, there was a marriage of Jacob Hill, Gardener, of Lower Kevin Street, son of Richard Hill, to Ellen Hannan.
There is also the marriage of a Joseph Hill of 29 Pembroke Road, again son of Richard Hill.
All three are strong biblical names - could they be siblings? It might be worth checking them out as you may get a lead here.
I noticed the Death of a Richard Hill, age 77, on 7 Apr 1861. Apparently this is in the Clontarf Church Register. As Clontarf is close to Donabate, could this be Rachel's father. Have you checked the Register to see what it says.
Regards
-----
I doubt that Richard Hill of Mountjoy Place and who died in 1861 is the same family.
For information:
1866 newspaper articles refer to a tragedy near Newbridge, the residence of Charles Cobbe Esq. where Joseph Hill, agent and steward was involved in the attempted rescue.
-
I have a Rachel Hill as my 2nd Great Grandmother, Married Hugh McGraw - 1873 - Hutchesontown, Lanarkshire, Scotland. I'd be glad to share more info if any of this data matches your search.