Author Topic: William Ferguson (c1800 - pre 1851)  (Read 18233 times)

Offline jamesfreid

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Re: William Ferguson (c1800 - pre 1851)
« Reply #36 on: Saturday 03 May 14 10:46 BST (UK) »
I will check on the Noice surname bit.

For all interested in the Hamiltons, here is some interesting information. I have in my possession the autobiography of my great-great grandfather, Thomas Smith (1836-1920) of Elma township, Perth county, Ontario. His wife was Ellen Hamilton (1844-1912), daughter of John Hamilton (1810-1887) and Joan Bryden (1807-1879). In Thomas Smith's autobiography of c. 1915, he includes some information on his wife's family, and notes that John Hamilton of Peebles had two older brothers, James and George, and a sister Ellen (namesake of his wife). He states that Ellen was married to a "Spaulding" although I have not been able to find any such record. (There is the possibility that this part of the autobiography (and "Spaulding") suffered from mis-transcription - only the typewritten version survives from the 1960s, whereas the original hand-written copy was accidentally destroyed in the 1990s by a relative in whose possession it had come to rest.)

Thus Thomas Smith was not aware of the older sisters of John Hamilton (Jane Ferguson and Margaret Muir Charters) as they were not in Peebles when Ellen Hamilton (1844-1912) was a little girl before moving to Canada in 1854 with her parents. But their relationship is confirmed from the Australian death registers.

This shows that older brother James was certainly perceived as a brother of John (1810-1887) by his daughter Ellen who would have known James when she was a little girl in Peebles. However, I'm starting to wonder if this James Hamilton (c.1791-1870) was maybe a half brother, given that there seems to be a large gap between him and Jane (born c.1802). Another possibility is that he was actually a generation further up, a younger brother of John Hamilton, husband of Anna Scott.

This James married Marion Callendar in 1820, and the entry from Edinburgh parish is as follows:
"Jas Hamilton mason St. Cutht parish & Marion Callender New Greyfriars, d. of James Callender book seller Dalkeith".

Thus all siblings seem to have left the place of their birth and moved. James was in Peebles by 1821 at the time of the birth of his daughter Grace. Perhaps George followed his older brother, leading him to settle there by 1827 when he married Mary Small. (In the parish register of Peebles for 1827, "George Hamilton, labourer in Peebles and Mary Small in the parish of Yarrow gave in their names to be proclaimed in order to marriage which was done once in Sunday 7 Jan. and twice on the 14th following and no objections offered.") John was in Peebles by about 1832 when he married Joan Bryden (no entry found). There was some reason they all moved to Peebles, but it could have just been because James moved there in the early 1820s - why that happened we may never know.

Any thoughts let me know!
 
Jamie Reid

Offline jamesfreid

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Re: William Ferguson (c1800 - pre 1851)
« Reply #37 on: Saturday 03 May 14 11:01 BST (UK) »
To summarize, here's what I have for the Hamiltons

John Hamilton = Anna Scott

1. James (c.1791-1870) = Marion Callendar from Dalkeith
- lived in Peebles, occupation: mason, carter
- census indicates birth in Keir, Dumfries
- death certificate indicates father was James, mason; unclear whether this is true or just lack of knowledge by informant (James' son, James)
- possibility that James's mother was not Anna Scott or even that he was a brother of purported father

2. Jane (c.1802-1875) = William Ferguson (?)
- parentage confirmed from Australian death records
- census indicates birth in Keir, Dumfries

3. Margaret (c.1805-1889) =1. John Muir =2. Alexander Charters
- parentage confirmed from Australian death records
- census indicates birth in Keir, Dumfries

4. George (c.1806-1878) = Mary Small from Yarrow
- census indicates birth in Keir, Dumfries
- lived in Peebles, occupation: carrier
- moved to Perth county, Ontario, Canada in c.1854, became farmer

5. John (c.1810-1887) =1. Joan Bryden = 2. Jessie Annice/Noice
- census indicates birth in Keir, Dumfries
- lived in Peebles, occupation: carter
- parentage confirmed from 2nd marriage record
- moved to Perth county, Ontario, Canada in c.1854, became farmer

6. Ellen, possibly married a Stobie

-Jamie Reid

Offline Hendo

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Re: William Ferguson (c1800 - pre 1851)
« Reply #38 on: Saturday 27 September 14 03:03 BST (UK) »
Hi James
Sorry I missed your last 2 postings. I deduced given the age difference between James and George, John etc & the 1851+ census records citing him as born in Keir, Dumfriesshire he is more likely to have been a brother to John Snr (husband of Anna Scott), rather than a son.  That would probably explain, apart from his older status, why he didn't emigrate with the boys to Canada. Have you got birth records for John & Anna?  Also, I have census & death regs for Helen Hamilton & John Stobie.  The 1851 Dalkeith census lists her birthplace as Dumfries.  Not sure on the link to Keir with her.  The presence of Jane (Hamilton) Ferguson's possible 2 year old daughter Annie with the Stobie family in the 1851 Dalkeith census is a possible link.
Re the Hamiltons leaving the parish of Keir, I suspect that John (snr) & Anna died in the 1820s and the family moved to Peebles to be with uncle James.
Although Margaret's 1st born (illegitimate) child was born in Dunscore, Dumfriesshire, a couple of  miles west of Winsover (what I assume was a farm). I wasn't aware of Winsover cottages.  I also noticed that it was also written as Windsover.  Can you share some data on this please?
Once again, sorry I missed your postings.  I look forward to reading your reply.
Best regards
Rob
Henderson, Cunningham, McNaught, Chartres, Lilburne, Porteous, Higham, Saw

Offline jamesfreid

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Re: William Ferguson (c1800 - pre 1851)
« Reply #39 on: Saturday 27 September 14 10:21 BST (UK) »
Thanks Rob. Yes, I agree, James is different from the others. Either he is an uncle, or perhaps he is a half brother, the son of John's first wife (if he had one) and the informant to his death certificate, James' son James, was incorrect in naming his grandfather as James (rather than John). This seems odd, particularly given that it is the paternal grandfather, but I think I've seen that in other families where the name is known with certainty retrospectively and the informants erred.

The only birth record I have is that for John Hamilton in 1810. (Are there any others? I could not find any for his siblings.) In the parish register of Keir, Dumfries-shire, "29 March a son of John Hamilton & Anna Scott in Winsover named John". The parish of Keir is in Nithsdale. Windsover is a short distance southwest of Auldgirth Bridge and can be seen here http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?x=284500&y=590500&z=120&sv=Keir&st=3&tl=Map+of+Keir+Hills,+Dumfries+and+Galloway+[Hill/Mountain]&searchp=ids.srf&mapp=map.srf or here: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.155916,-3.7208389,3a,75y,346.66h,80.72t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sto1CrANubiowJiSnmcnr7w!2e0?hl=en .

I do wonder if there would be any records of that farm that would show a change of tenancy historically, which could help us track the Hamilton family. It is odd that they don't seem to appear in the parish records much.

Back to James' (b. 1791) parentage. We know that his first son was James and his second daughter was Elizabeth. On the other side of the family, brothers George and John (sons of John and Anna) both had first sons John, which we know to be the name of their paternal grandfather, and second daughters Anne, the name of their paternal grandmother. It doesn't prove anything, but if we say that James was using the same pattern, then he is the son of James (matching the death record) and Elizabeth. This would suggest he is an uncle rather than half-brother. We also know that James' wife, Marion Callender, was the daughter of James and Grace ("Grizel"). James and Marion's first daughter was Grace, indicating perhaps they followed the pattern.

I would love to find more information on this family further back but they are proving elusive!

Jamie Reid


Offline Hendo

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Re: William Ferguson (c1800 - pre 1851)
« Reply #40 on: Tuesday 30 September 14 00:24 BST (UK) »
Hi James
Interesting, my navigation to Windsover/Winsover was via Dunscore and then Dunscore East Church and NNE of Merkland. Just a different way of getting there.  I guess as Margaret Hamilton had her 1st child in Dunscore, I used that place as a focal point and radiated my search throughout Keir parish from there.
 
The second link seems to take me to the same area, but the buildings are called Allanton Mill & Cottage.  I wonder, if this is where Winsover was, why the change in name or even if the original Windsover cottage/house/farm house was demolished.  The landscape fits the early maps for Allanton Mill & Windsover/Winsover.

If it has been digitised, are you willing to send me a copy of your great, great grandfather’s autobiography?  My email addrerss is *

Re your question on birth registrations for John Hamilton’s (1810) siblings, none were found.  As I said, the evidence I found for Jane & Margaret Hamilton was on their death registrations and the marriage reg for Jane’s daughter Annie Ferguson to William Chartres in Bung Bong, Victoria, Australia.  I can forward these documents to you if you wish (just need an email address).

Re “It doesn't prove anything, but if we say that James was using the same pattern, then he is the son of James (matching the death record) and Elizabeth. This would suggest he is an uncle rather than half-brother.”  I agree with your conclusion and have been thinking along these lines for some time.  I believe that it’s not unusual for a grandson (James) to not know the maiden name of his paternal grandmother, but her first name?  Perhaps there was a rift between James (1791) and his father/mother and they weren’t spoken of.  Did you find a birth reg for James (1791)?

Anyway, good to hear from you.  Look forward to sharing more ideas with you.
Rob

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Henderson, Cunningham, McNaught, Chartres, Lilburne, Porteous, Higham, Saw

Offline DeBarre

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Re: William Ferguson (c1800 - pre 1851)
« Reply #41 on: Tuesday 22 December 15 13:16 GMT (UK) »
Is anyone aware of the exact plot in St Andrew's where the aforementioned James Hamilton (1791-1870) is buried, I've read transcription and want to visit, he is my 4th great grandfather, seemingly his ancestry is traceable through a Scots peerage site, which I checked years back...
In addition many of us related to James Hamilton have his parents on Ancestry as James Hamilton and Agnes Bethune (Beaton)...
Barrie. (Dalziel/Motherwell)
Lappin.
Swan. (Peebles & Townhead)
Freckleton.

Swan. Peebles & Glasgow
McMillan. Blantyre & Bridgeton

Offline Hendo

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Re: William Ferguson (c1800 - pre 1851)
« Reply #42 on: Thursday 24 December 15 22:53 GMT (UK) »
I have James Hamilton's death as 4 Jul 1870 at Southgate, Peebles.  He was a Carter & his father James was a Mason.  The death reg however lists his birthplace as Tinwald.  John Hamilton's birthplace was listed as Keir, Dumfrieshsire.  Tinwald is about 17 miles to the SE of Keir, Dumfriesshire.  According to FamilySearch (http://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Tinwald,_Dumfriesshire,_Scotland_Genealogy) Tinwald is near Amisfield.  Ironically, Amisfield was the seat of the Charteris family & still the location of the family castle.
The death reg also lists his wife as Marion Callander (deceased).  This ties in with other evidence for the Hamilton family.  However, as with most of the Hamilton data, there are many missing documents. 
I hope this helps.  I can flick you the death registration for James if you supply your email address on the PM section.
Cheers
Rob
Henderson, Cunningham, McNaught, Chartres, Lilburne, Porteous, Higham, Saw

Offline DeBarre

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Re: William Ferguson (c1800 - pre 1851)
« Reply #43 on: Saturday 26 December 15 13:10 GMT (UK) »
Hi Rob, thanks for info, I have copies of his and Marion Callander's death certificates, however I'm not aware of this death index that gives his place of birth so would be gratefull to see it, quite bizarre that not only do we not have his mother's name officially but also his  1st daughter's name is not given, which keeps us all in limbo! Stephen
Barrie. (Dalziel/Motherwell)
Lappin.
Swan. (Peebles & Townhead)
Freckleton.

Swan. Peebles & Glasgow
McMillan. Blantyre & Bridgeton

Offline ecksdochter

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Re: William Ferguson (c1800 - pre 1851)
« Reply #44 on: Saturday 26 December 15 18:58 GMT (UK) »
Hello,
     You may already have the following information & I've missed it while reading through your posts. ScotlandsPeople has a marriage for John Stobie & Helen Hamilton, 22nd May 1840 at Lasswade, Midlothian & 23rd May 1840 at Peebles, Peebleshire. Probably the dates the banns/proclamation of marriage were read rather than marriage date. If John & Helen lived in different parishes, their banns would be read in both parishes.
               Regards,     Dod.
     
     
"Scotsman! I am not a Scotsman -- I am a Fifer."