LOCKHART and grasping at straws

[DonM]

Yes all the streets you listed were near King.

The Erie Canal was going through a major expansion when they were in Albany so opportunities would have drawn them there.

Many stayed in Quebec for a time before moving west and given the absence of the 1841-1851/2 Toronto Census it might be worth checking the Drouin Collection to see if the Lockhart’s are listed.

You might also wish to check the records http://www.presbyterianarchives.ca for Knox and St. Andrews which if they were Presbyterian, would have attended in Toronto.  You might also try the UofT (Library), they have many records on the early trades associations and private clubs which the tradesmen belonged.  Working at the Commercial Bank (of Midland) which catered to Great Lakes Shipping he may have been a member of the Toronto Club which had a much more open membership in the 1830-40’s.  The records for this Club are held at the UofT and Toronto (main) Libraries.

Eleanor wasn’t a common given name only one registration in Scotland albeit a few years earlier (1806).  She was the daughter of James Lockhart and Elizabeth Lockhart born in Airdrie, he was a shoemaker.  There is no marriage in Scotland of this Eleanor nor any others, then again she could have died pre 1855 or remained single or emigrated elsewhere.  There is no other children registered with the CoS, perhaps they left shortly after changed denomination, had more elsewhere or none at all.  There are 4 Helen’s registered between 1810-1820 and 14 marriages of a Helen between 1835-1854 which is the long way around to prove/disprove she came from Scotland.  I have a lot of records from this era in Canada and many although noted as being from Scotland were actually born in Canada so I wouldn’t discount she may be a local girl of Scottish parents.

Good luck with your hunt.

[heiserca]

"In 1935, the Philip Schuyler Chapter of the Daughters of the American Revolution (DAR), located in Troy, NY, documented the death and marriage records that were printed in various Troy newspapers during the years 1812 to 1885."

That transcript was given to the Troy Irish Genealogy Society and is now available online.  No version of the Clezie name and no Lockhart on it!

We know they got married at Troy, 11 June 1841, at Second Street Presbyterian Church, Rev. Dr. William D. Snodgrass.  We have the church record.  Yet there was no newspaper announcement.  Because they were too poor to publish one?  Or because they were both from Toronto, and there was no point in an announcement as nobody local knew them?

Now what?  How to ever find Ellen's origin?

[heiserca]

In Toronto, the Clezies were not overly religious but they did attend St. Andrew's Presbyterian Church.  A kind researcher at the Presbyterian Archives years ago dug out various items, baptisms of Clezie children, deaths of some.  No reference was found to Ellen Lockhart's date or place or place of birth.  Struck out again.

Other branches of the Clezie family used alternate spellings:  Clazey, Clazie, Clazy, Clezy.  The family members in Toronto were fairly consistent with the Clezie spelling, although George Clezie (father of James) appeared on one voting list as "Clizzee".

[JaneyCanuck]

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,595931.10.html

And now I see that a good bit of the information given in this thread was not shared with us in this thread:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,601912.html

So we found it all over again! 

I thought that those who contributed here might be interested in my nutshell hypothesis at the first link above.

[Skoosh]

Always worth a trawl through the National Archives, maybe he left in a hurry!!!!!
http://www.nas.gov.uk/onlineCatalogue/
Don't be too precise.

Skoosh.

[Forfarian]

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,595931.10.html
And now I see that a good bit of the information given in this thread was not shared with us in this thread:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,601912.html
So we found it all over again! 
I thought that those who contributed here might be interested in my nutshell hypothesis at the first link above.

Thank you for those links. It's annoying when you spend time digging up information, only to find that the person you dug it up for already has it.

I have a Jane Ethel Clazie, daughter of William Clazie and Jemima Mariah Clarke, married into my family in Canada. She was born in Thurlow Township, Hastings County, Ontario on 3 September 1885, married John Donaldson on 1 June 1911 in Thurlow, and died in 1953.

[JaneyCanuck]

Hiya! Just for info, your Jane's father was William Clazie in the 1901 census.
http://automatedgenealogy.com/census/ViewFrame.jsp?id=53754&highlight=25

(free access to 1901 and 1911 Canadian censuses, but a lousy search engine"
http://automated genealogy.com

He was born 11 Feb 1847 in Scotland -- so he isn't one of this particular clan, who were in Ontario pre-1840. His wife Jemima was born in Ontario in 1850.

But as heiserca has said, they's all related somehow! ... Actually, there are loads of them in Ontario: about 3 dozen Clazie marriages in the index at Anc'y. Where the transcriptions are notoriously awful. I see a couple of kids' births, but not the marriage. If you can find it, it will give his parents' names.

Aha, they're in Hastings County in 1901. Familysearch has his death:
12 Aug 1921
born 11 Feb 1849 Scotland
parents William Clazie and Jane Greaves

Another child of theirs (familysearch says William Clasie and Jane Grieve), Isabella Pickering, died in 1920 in Cobourg Ontario. And a James died 1922 in Hastings. So you have lots of people to hunt up now, if you didn't before.

[Forfarian]

Hiya! Just for info, your Jane's father was William Clazie in the 1901 census.
http://automatedgenealogy.com/census/ViewFrame.jsp?id=53754&highlight=25

Thanks - yes, I have that, and the 1891.

(free access to 1901 and 1911 Canadian censuses, but a lousy search engine"
http://automated genealogy.com

Indeed - but it's better than the search engine on the Canada Library web site for the 1871 and 1881 census
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/census/index-e.html

He was born 11 Feb 1847 in Scotland -- so he isn't one of this particular clan

There is no such clan - it's a very common misconception that everyone in Scotland belongs to a clan.

The clans were a social feature of the Highlands only, and the majority of Scots lived in the Lowlands. Until at least the 17th century most Lowland Scots probably thought of Highlanders as dangerous savages, and would have been shocked to the core by any suggestion that they had anything to do with any clan.

Things have become more blurred in recent years, with families who originally had nothing to do with the Highlands setting up clan societies and becoming members of the Standing Council of Scottish Chiefs http://www.clanchiefs.org/ - for example Scott and Elliot(t), which are Border families with no Highland roots at all, and Hamilton and Guthrie which are out-and-out Lowland families.

In my tree I have so far found 207 direct ancestors (assuming no errors ), every single one of whom was born and (with one exception still living in Scotland) died in Scotland, with 75 different surnames. Of these only 11 people have what I would regard as clan surnames (Forbes, Grant, Mackenzie, MacKie, MacPherson, MacVey, MacWilliam, Stewart/Stuart), the closest to me being a Leslie great-great-grandmother.

There are also 52 with 18 surnames listed at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Scottish_clans as 'Lowland and Border clans', including Guthrie, Hogg, Leslie, Lindsay, Scott and Wallace. I am sure that we could argue till the cows come home which surnames are and which are not Highland clan surnames (the Wikipedia lists doesn't mention McVey or McWilliam in either category, for instance) and I don't regard Wikipedia as authoritative, but I hope I have managed to demonstrate that it is possible to be 100% Scottish without having a close, or indeed any, connection to any clan.

[JaneyCanuck]

Forgive me. I used the word "clan" in a completely casual way, just as I would say that my Hill clan came from Cornwall. I have no misconceptions and was not labouring under any in this case. I was actually referring to a very specific nuclear family in this case: the William Lockhart and Margaret Henderson couple and their children.