Author Topic: Elizabeth CRICKMER - Bury St Edmunds  (Read 7547 times)

Offline historyfreak

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Re: Elizabeth CRICKMER - Bury St Edmunds
« Reply #9 on: Monday 03 June 13 14:51 BST (UK) »
Hi,
Thanks for the response!
I don't think the Witney one is her - the contemporary newspaper reports say she died in Southwark on 6th October 1851, and the burial register gives 10 October 1851 as date of burial.  April would have been too early.
There were other Druces in Witney (where Thomas Charles Druce, her husband, was born).
Sunny Kayte says she has the death certificate for October - do you, Kayte??
Many thanks
Piu

Offline avm228

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Re: Elizabeth CRICKMER - Bury St Edmunds
« Reply #10 on: Monday 03 June 13 14:59 BST (UK) »
Death, Dec qtr 1851

Elizabeth DRUCE

St George, Southwark vol 4 p371.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline historyfreak

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Re: Elizabeth CRICKMER - Bury St Edmunds
« Reply #11 on: Monday 03 June 13 15:02 BST (UK) »
Wow! Thanks!
I have been looking for this for absolutely ages....
 :)

Offline Sunny Kayte

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Re: Elizabeth CRICKMER - Bury St Edmunds
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 08 June 13 04:28 BST (UK) »
Hello Piu, just saw your message re Elizabeth Crickmer.
According to the information on the death certificate Elizabeth died on 6th October, 1851 at 8 East Street, West Square, Southwark.
The copy of the copy of the cert I have is very faint so I'm guessing it's West Square.  It's definitely the right person as it states she was the wife of Thomas Charles Druce, gentleman!
The informant who was present at the death was Mary Walker or Waller? (name is very indistinct) of the same address. Cause of death was diarrhoea and congestion of the brain. Unfortunately there is no indication of where she was buried. I'm not familiar with cemeteries in London but Googled Norwood and saw it was probably the closest for her burial however I couldn't find her name listed there.
TC must have been aware of her death because he married Annie before the end of the month.

I believe Elizabeth may have been in London for some months as there's a possible entry for her on the 1851 census as a lodger with a Waller/ Walker family in East Street.

Do you have any information on the probable pedigree for our man of mystery TC himself????
I suspect it's something we will never know... :'(

Cheers, Kay
Druce, Clout, Court, Brownjohn, Clark, Savory, Shorter, Church, Shepherd


Offline avm228

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Re: Elizabeth CRICKMER - Bury St Edmunds
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 08 June 13 09:15 BST (UK) »
The 1851 census is a great find.  Full details are as follows.

1851 census

8 East Street, St Georges Southwark

Edward WALLER Head Mar 36 Carpenter Hardingford*
Mary do Wife Mar 38 Devonshire
Elizabeth do Daur 9 Enfield Middx
Mary J do Daur 4 St George's Southwark
Edward W do Son 3 do
Susan do Daur 1 do
Elizabeth DOUCE Visitor Mar 56 Shirt maker do

*Later censuses show Edward's birthplace as Hertingfordbury, i.e. Hertford.

The family's surname is definitely WALLER rather than WALKER

Their daughter Susan WALLER was baptised on 23 Dec 1849 at All Saints, Lower Marsh, daughter of Edward (carpenter) and Mary, of 8 East St, West Square.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline Sunny Kayte

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Re: Elizabeth CRICKMER - Bury St Edmunds
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 16 June 13 04:07 BST (UK) »
Hi, thanks for the clarification of the name Waller as the family with whom Elizabeth was staying. In the 1841 census there is a Mary Denton , 25,  listed at the same address in Great Yarmouth so it's possible she may have become Mary Waller.
Druce, Clout, Court, Brownjohn, Clark, Savory, Shorter, Church, Shepherd

Offline historyfreak

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Re: Elizabeth CRICKMER - Bury St Edmunds
« Reply #15 on: Friday 21 June 13 16:35 BST (UK) »
Hello,
Thanks so much for these responses, sorry for the delay in reply - I didn't get any email alert to say there had been replies!
Ancestry.com has an entry for Elizabeth Druce's burial at Norwood cemetery, and I have her death certificate now - interesting that TC is described as a 'gentleman'!!
The 1851 census entry is very interesting and especially as she is described as a 'shirt maker' - a Daily Express article contemporary with the Druce case describes that Elizabeth was a wonderful seamstress and made beautiful shirts for a shirt-maker in Southwark (she was obviously pretty hard up after being deserted by TC, and presumably did this to make a bit of money)
One thing I just can't find is a D.O.B. for Charles Crickmer Druce - the parish register entry for baptism just gives date of baptism of December 1818, but no date of birth.  I really want to find this as I have a hunch it might lead to something very interesting.....

Offline suffolk*sue

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Re: Elizabeth CRICKMER - Bury St Edmunds
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 22 June 13 19:41 BST (UK) »
On the Suffolk Baptism Index it says Charles Crickmer Druce was born October 26th and baptised December 23rd, 1818. His father Thomas was a linen draper.
Census information is Crown Copyright  -  http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline historyfreak

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Re: Elizabeth CRICKMER - Bury St Edmunds
« Reply #17 on: Monday 24 June 13 09:18 BST (UK) »
Hello,
Thanks for this.  Hmm, October is a bit later than I expected.  George Hollamby Druce's case (to justify his claim to the Portland title) was that Charles Crickmer was the illegitimate son of Elizabeth Crickmer's sister Mary, so I was wondering if Charles' birth date might give a clue as to the truth of this - ie if he was born at a date too close to the birth of either his elder brother Henry (23 Sept 1817) or younger brother George (1 Oct 1819) to have been born to the same woman.  But the dates show that they perfectly could conceivably have all three been born to Elizabeth, although it's very close!  Will need to do some more resarch....
Best,
Piu