Maude VAN-OKKER

[Richard Knott]

This family appears on a number of public trees, one of which shows Charles Okker senior as Koopman Okker (with earlier generations).

R

[wildcats13]

My apologies to everyone as I have only just noticed the messages you sent, I must have somehow missed the advice emails, as I have had some problems at that stage with my computer.

I have been trying to digest all the comments put foward and make the following observasions,

I don't think the Charles Okker (French Polisher) is the correct one, as William & Maud's marriage certificate stated her father was a jeweller, which fits in with the father of Charles Benjamin Marcus Okker, who was shown as Diamond Merchant.

Also Charles & Emily didn't marry until 1874, and Emma, Charles and Adolophus are all born before that date. Alternatively, he MAY be their father from a possible previous marriage.

According to the marriage certificate, Maud was 25 when she married William in 1909.  I don't have Maud's second marriage certificate to check, however I believe she married a third time to a Arthur E Bradley in June Qtr, 1941, Hendon, Middlesex 3a 1874, and have just now found her death details as Maud Bradley in March Qtr, 1950, shown as 66 years, which confirms with her birth year of 1884.

I believe that Charles B M Okker, born Bonchurch, Isle of Wight, is from the same family as Maud, and it may be only a co-incidence that Emily Okker (nee Dennis) was also born in Isle of Wight. Also, Charles & Emily's son Charles is born in Balham, Surrey.

I have checked out the Iris Greta Joy Sibley mentioned and she is not the correct one, so I am still searching for the right one.

Sounds a bit of a muddle doesn't it. Look foward to your comments again.

Thamks once again.

Best Regards,

Peter

[Valda]

Hi


Possible reason for 'Charles' and Emily's late marriage (or their in fact second marriage)


J 77/128/2570  Divorce Court File: 2570. Appellant: Mariana Van Okker. Respondent: Koopman Okker. Type: Wife's petition [wx]. 1872


Marriages Sep 1869   
Dennes  Emily    Wandsworth  1d 721     
OKKERS  Charles Makes     Wandsworth  1d 721

25th July 1869 St Leonard, Streatham
Charles Makes Okkers 32 Bachelor Railway Porter Streatham Makes Okkers (Deceased) Polisher Diamond
Emily Dennes 22 Spinster Streatham Benjamin Dennes Baker
Both signed
Witnesses William George junr and Mary Ann Curry

Marriages Mar 1874   
Dennis  Emily    St Saviour  1d 203   
Okker  Charles     St. Saviour  1d 203

Eldest child's birth registration

Births Jun 1867 Dennes  Emma Minnie F     I. Wight  2b 538


Charles Benjamin 'Marcus' 

10th January 1872 St Mary Balham born 24th December 1869
Charles Benjamin Okkers parents Charles Makes and Emily Okkers, Trinity Street Balham, father's occupation Porter
baptised the same day
Henry Adolphus born 4th November 1871

Births Mar 1870   OAKKERS  Charles Benjamin     Wandsworth  1d 639

1871 census RG10 718? folio 48
1 Thurlow Terrace Dendy Street Streatham
Charles Okkers 34 Head Married Railway porter Amsterdam Holland British Subject
Emily Okkers 23 Wife Married Ventnor Hampshire
Minnie Okkers 3 Daughter Ventnor Hamsphire
Charles Okkers 1 Son Streatham Surrey
Sophia Dennis 17 Visitor House maid domestic Ventnor Hampshire
plus 1 lodger

1891 census RG12 71 folio 7
35 St Georges Place St George Hanover Square
Charles B M Okker 20 Servant Journeyman Butcher Bonchurch I of Wight

13th October 1901 St James, Paddington
Charles Benjamin Marcus Okker 31 Bachelor Cab proprietor 12 Susan Mews West Charles Okker (deceased) Diamond Merchant
Edith Annie Kirby 26 Spinster 12 Susan Mews West James Kirby Time Keeper
Both signed
Witnesses Lily Caroline Jarvis and John Johnson

29th Sep 1895 born 9th September Holy Redeemer Clerkenwell
Nora Elaine Burton Okker  parents Charles B Marius Okker and Edith Okker, 40 Wilmington Square, father's occupation cab proprietor

Births Dec 1895   Okker  Nora Elaine B    Holborn  1b 687

1901 census RG13 199 folio 102
57 Roden Street Islington
James Kirby 50 Head Married Printer's  Time Keeper Castle Rising Norfolk
Amelia Kirby 55 Wife Married Whitehaven Cumberland
Nora Okker 5 Granddaughter Clerkenwell London

Edith Okker 'married' was visiting in Tottenham on the 1901 census (census night 1901 was 31st March)

J 77/944/8659  Divorce Court File: 8659. Appellant: Charles Benjamin Marens Okker. Respondent: Edith Annie Okker. Co-respondent: Alfred Hyde. Type: Husband's petition for divorce [hd]. 1908

I can't find Charles Benjamin Marcus on the 1901 census but it might be worth looking for him on the 1911 census to confirm his birthplace. From a free search it looks to be in London.

http://www.1911census.co.uk/


Charles B M Okkers died in 1955 on the Isle of Wight aged 85.


The information on the tree states Koopman Okker was born 23rd September 1837 in Amsterdam the son of Marcus Isaac Okker 1790-1855. Koopman/Charles married Marianna VanDiepenheym in Amsterdam in 1858. He died 22nd March 1885 in Wandsworth Surrey County Asylum.

1861 census RG9 20 folio 63
5 Orington? Terrace Kensington
Koopman Okker 24 Head Married Diamond polisher Amsterdam
Marion Okker 23 Wife Married Netherlands
plus 1 servant and 2 boarders

possible son's death registration

Deaths Jun 1861   Okker  Marcus    Kensington  1a 75


Regards

Valda

[jsnow]

Iris Georgina married  a Mr White, lived in Bristol  I have her as Iris Georgina Harvard dau Annie Maud Okker and Charles Simmonds Harvard. She is my 1st cousin twice removed

[dawnsh]

Hi jsnow

Welcome to Rootschat 

Peter (wildcats) should receive email notifications that we have posted and hopefully come back soon.

Dawn

[wildcats13]

Hi jsnow,

I am so pleased that you found my listing on Maude Van Okker, as I had nearly given up on finding any more information.

As you can see from the previous entries, there is some uncertainty as to whether William Sibley or Charles Simmons Havard is the father of Iris as she was born 1915 and Maude didn't marry Charles until September quarter of 1921, and in freebdm, there are two birth entries for Iris, one for Sibley & one for Havard. This could be possible if Charles had officially adopted Iris.

Only recently, I heard that a Reginald G T White had married a Havard in September quarter 1952 in Bristol, but at this stage I still have to follow that up. Hopefully this is the same one.

I am very interested to know how your connection came about, whether Iris had any brother's or sister's, and if she had any children herself, and if you have any certificates relating to her. I also found that Maude married again (3rd time) to Arthur E Bradley in June Qtr. 1941 in Hendon District, Middlesex and died in 1951 in Essex.

I am also still searching for the second wife of William Sibley, whose initials were listed as A M on his death certificate in 1935. They lived at 162 Goldhawk Road Hammersmith. I have found a few entries for William Sibley with the wife's initials with A M, but unless I purchase a lot of certificates, it is very difficult to search from Australia.

Anyway, I am glad you found me and I look fowrd to hearing from you again soon.

Regards,

Peter


 

[jsnow]

I have distant cousin who has visited Iris I think - will ask him what he knows

[jsnow]

tony says to email him directly on edited

Julia

[dawnsh]

Hi Julia

In accordance with Rootschat policies, I've removed the email address. We only allow that format for business addresses.

http://www.rootschat.com/help/posting_guide.php

You have enough posts now to send this information on the personal message (PM) system. To send a pm, click on the green scroll under members avatars and follow the instructions.

Dawn