Author Topic: Roberts Family of Fachwen and Llandeiniolen  (Read 25058 times)

Offline welshpride

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Roberts Family of Fachwen and Llandeiniolen
« on: Thursday 06 June 13 05:22 BST (UK) »
Making a broad search of the Roberts family from this location circa 1750-1850. 

Robert J. E. Roberts (1721-1796) married Jane Jones (1719-1796)

They had children:

Elizabeth Roberts (1745-1763)
Grace Roberts (1748- )
Robert Roberts (1752-1832)
William Roberts (1757-1767)
Ann Roberts (1760- )
Elizabeth Roberts (1763- )
Ellin Roberts (1763- )
John Roberts (1765- )
William Roberts (1767-1844)

The males were miners, working in a large slate mine operation near to Fachwen.  The person I am most interested in learning more about is John Roberts, born in 1765.  I believe he may have been the father of my ancestor Jane Roberts, who was also registered in some church documents as Jane Jones.  It has been explained to me that as a child of John Roberts (in the patronymic system) could be called Jane Jones (from John) or Jane Roberts.  It was further suggested her father would likely have been named John Roberts or Robert Jones.  She was definitely a relative of this family, and certainly so if it turns out she WAS a daughter of John Roberts (1765).  I've found many family trees on this overall family, but none that go into the descendants of John Roberts.

Additional particulars which may help:

Jane Roberts was born in 1786 and may have lived on a farm to the west, in L:lanfair-is-gaer, called Garth.  When Jane married John Daniel in 1825 they immediately took up residence in this farm home.  She was reported to "be of the family living at Garth."

Jane Roberts married John Daniel on July 27, 1825.  They had a son, John Robert Daniel in 1826, and a daughter, Margaret, in 1832.

The family left in a great migration from North Wales to Wisconsin in the U.S. which took place during 1845.

Hoping someone out there may be familiar with this Roberts family and may have some information on which child of Robert J. E. Roberts and Jane Jones would have been the parent of Jane Roberts (b. 1786).

Thank you,

Steve Jones
Racine, Wisconsin, USA

Offline Huwcyn

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Re: Roberts Family of Fachwen and Llandeiniolen
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 06 June 13 07:22 BST (UK) »
I'm familiar with some members of this family - in particular the descendants  of Robert Roberts (1752-1832) who married a relative of mine. May I ask how you know Jane Roberts was a relative ?
Owen , Parry , Pritchard, Foulkes  o Llanddeiniolen
Jones, Bellis o Sir Fflint
Williams o Beaumaris
Chambers o Dulyn
Rowlands o Tywyn

Offline DCB

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Re: Roberts Family of Fachwen and Llandeiniolen
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 06 June 13 09:30 BST (UK) »
There is a baptism of Jane, daughter of Robert Roberts and Mary of Fachwen, on 26th March 1785.

Also Jane, daughter of David Roberts and Margaret on 14th July 1785 but I can't make out the place name.

David

Offline welshpride

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Re: Roberts Family of Fachwen and Llandeiniolen
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 06 June 13 13:13 BST (UK) »
As for the connection, it is repeatedly and well-documented in biographies of this particular Welsh family here in Wisconsin that Jane Roberts was a cousin of Foulk Roberts, a son of the second marriage of Robert Roberts (b. 1752).  Foulk was the pioneer immigrant who first came before the rest two days after he was married in Wales on 18 September 1844.  He paved the way for the rest who settled in this area of my state. 

These biographies also go on to state that "several other of her family" settled there, including Hugh Roberts and his descendants, who seem to have been involved in some way with the Calvinistic ministry. 

I've been unable to get through to any parentage of Jane by direct research, so I am using a flanking maneuver in a search of her family hoping to find the connection.  If she were a cousin to Foulk Roberts (b. 1820 Llandeiniolen) that would indicate she was the child of one of Foulk's  uncles or aunts, hence the search within his immediate family. The relationship seems to be rather close, which is why I am thinking we're talking about first cousins here, not fourth or fifth...

Jane appears on various official documents as both Jane Roberts and Jane Jones.  For example, her name appeared as Jane Roberts on her 1825 wedding registration, and in multiple biographies in local histories here in Wisconsin.  However, her name was registered on her children's baptism entries as Jane Jones.  My Welsh researcher friend suggested that this was likely due to patronymics and the church member recording her surname interpreting her name as he saw fit based on his use or non-use of that naming convention, based on differing patronymic practices.

My friend (a veteran genealogist of 30 years) further suggested that there was a good possibillity that based on patronymics that her father's name likely would have been John Roberts or Robert Jones (i.e. - child could be given last name Jones from John, Jones or simply take Roberts from Robert or surname Roberts).  It just so happens that Foulk Roberts had an uncle named John Roberts...Of course, this is just a lead I am following up on, like a detective, but my other avenues have dried up.

One thing is clear to me, the more I learn about the family of Foulk Roberts (b. 1820), his father Robert Roberts (b. 1752) and Foulk's grandparents (Robert L. E. Roberts and Jane Jones), the more likely the possibility that I will find one of those ancestors will be Jane's parent(s).

Oh yes, I should also note that the Jane Roberts mentioned by two of you in replies as having been born in 1785 - close, but no cigar - she died in the early 1800's.  My Jane lived until 13 October 1872 and died here in Wisconsin.  I saw that Jane on sveeral trees over the weekend and was sure I'd found the link, until I see she died a young woman.

The search continues...

Steve Jones


Offline Huwcyn

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Re: Roberts Family of Fachwen and Llandeiniolen
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 06 June 13 17:27 BST (UK) »
If she were a cousin of Foulk Roberts, then it would certainly be on his father's side. His mother was a 'Foulkes' , and there was no brother called Robert Foulkes. There might be some benefit in looking at Llanfaglan baptisms and marriages, as I think the marriage of Jane Roberts and John Daniel took place in Llanfaglan, and her (suspected) grandfather (Robert Evan) lived there. Robert Roberts is said to have moved from Fachwen to Blaen y Cae (Llanddeiniolen) around 1802, but no record exists as to when the family moved from Llanfaglan. Is it possible that she was born to John Roberts in Llanfaglan, and that he never actually followed his brother to Llanddeiniolen ?
Owen , Parry , Pritchard, Foulkes  o Llanddeiniolen
Jones, Bellis o Sir Fflint
Williams o Beaumaris
Chambers o Dulyn
Rowlands o Tywyn

Offline welshpride

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Re: Roberts Family of Fachwen and Llandeiniolen
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 06 June 13 19:02 BST (UK) »
At this point I would entertain any possibility.  I just don't know enough about John Roberts to say one way or another.  You are correct about the marriage of John Daniel and Jane.  It took place in Llanfaglan on 27 July 1825.  The marriage registration stated:

John Daniel of the Parish of Lladegai in the County of Caernarvon and Jane Roberts of this Parish were married in this church by Banns with Confet of parents this 27th Day of July in the Year one-thousand eight hundred and twenty-five by me (Edward Hughes, Vicar).  This marriage was solemnized between us John Daniel and Jane Roberts in the presence of Daniel Jones and John Williams.

Keep the information and ideas coming.  I feel we are getting close...

Steve

Offline despair

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Re: Roberts Family of Fachwen and Llandeiniolen
« Reply #6 on: Friday 07 June 13 12:05 BST (UK) »
There is a baptism to match Huwcyn's theory:
Llanfaglan  Aug 27  1786  Jane daughter of John Roberts and Margaret his wife

The following is wild speculation and possibly complete nonsense:

There is a marriage of John Roberts to Margaret Daniel in Aberffraw 1783
There is a Margaret Daniel baptised 1764 in Aberffraw to William and Margaret who might be a candidate.
John Daniel who marries Jane Roberts could be the one baptised 1790 in Aberffraw to William and Elizabeth.
William in turn could be the one baptised to William and Margaret in Aberffraw in 1865,making him a brother of Margaret(Jane's mother),and therefore Jane married her first cousin?

Regards
Roger

Offline Huwcyn

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Re: Roberts Family of Fachwen and Llandeiniolen
« Reply #7 on: Friday 07 June 13 12:29 BST (UK) »
A will of a John Roberts of Ty Newydd, Llanfaglan around 1826 mentions a daughter Jane Roberts as both a beneficiary and executor.
Owen , Parry , Pritchard, Foulkes  o Llanddeiniolen
Jones, Bellis o Sir Fflint
Williams o Beaumaris
Chambers o Dulyn
Rowlands o Tywyn

Offline welshpride

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Re: Roberts Family of Fachwen and Llandeiniolen
« Reply #8 on: Friday 07 June 13 13:20 BST (UK) »
Holy smokes it sounds as though you guys have really put together a compelling case.  Examining what you have just related to me we have the following pieces to the puzzle, which would seem to fit together:

Jane Roberts, daughter of John Roberts, presumably born, and baptized in 1786 in the community from which she seems to have lived much of her life.  To follow that up, there is a prominent role to play in the care of John Roberts personal will, by a Jane Roberts.  There is a John Roberts who's wife's name was Margaret.  The only daughter Jane Roberts had was named Margaret.

Keep it up guys, you're on fire!!!

Many thanks.

Steve Jones
Wisconsin