Author Topic: Peter Bennet Marshall, Bathgate, son of Robert Marshall and Jean Arthur  (Read 5848 times)

Offline LillianCat

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Peter Bennet Marshall, Bathgate, son of Robert Marshall and Jean Arthur
« on: Sunday 22 September 13 15:38 BST (UK) »
Hello all,

Wondering if anyone has any further information regarding a Peter Bennet Marshall born on Feb. 8, 1816 in Bathgate and baptized on May 2, 1816.

Robert Marshall and Jean Arthur are listed as his parents. He is listed as being born "of fornication".

There is a Robert Marshall who is married on January 1, 1816 in Bathgate to a spouse "name not given". (Why would this have been done, my understanding is that the church baptized all children without requiring the parents to formally marry. Why not list the spouse?)

There is a Robert Marshall born to Petter Marshal and Margrate Draybrugh in Torpichen on March 6, 1791. This would seem to be correct as now we have the reason for the name "Peter" in the child "born of fornication".

There is a Jannet Arthur born in Torpichen on Sept. 5, 1796 to Robert Arthur and Elisabath Bennet. Her family seems to move later to Bathgate as her younger siblings are born in Bathgate. This would give us the name "Bennet" that persisted with Peter in my family, leading to a long line of Peter Bennet Marshalls, the last being my brother born in 1964.

I find no other siblings for Peter Bennet Marshall, born in 1816 in Bathgate, and no death certificate for Jean Arthur for this same time period which would have prevented the couple from having further children...

I then find Peter B. Marshall married and listed on the census records starting in 1851, but can't find any information previous to this.

Would anyone have any insight? Perhaps I'm looking at this from the wrong angle.

Thanks very much in advance.

Offline loobylooayr

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Re: Peter Bennet Marshall, Bathgate, son of Robert Marshall and Jean Arthur
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 05 October 13 23:09 BST (UK) »
Hi LillianCat,

Interestingly there is a Jean Arthur marries a Robert Bennet at Torphichen on 5th June 1820 - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XY7B-284.

This couple are on the 1841 Census at Adams Court Lane, St.Enochs Glasgow.
Robert Bennet     age  55  Store Keeper
Jean Bennet         age 40
James Bennet       age 15  Apprentice Soap Maker
John  Bennet        age 10
Andrew Bennet     age  4
All are born outwith the Census County. There are also 2 men living at the address with them - A David Jackson age 20 and a William Blacklock age 20 both Journeyman Tailors.

I think this could be Jean on the 1851- 7 Alston Street, Barony , Lanarkshire
Jane Bennet   Head of household Widow   age 56 Spirit Dealer Born Torphichen West Lothian
Andrew Bennet Son                                age 14 Cooper         Born Glasgow Lanarkshire.

I don't know if this is the Jean Arthur who gives birth to Peter Bennet Marshall, but if she died after 1855 you would be able to find her death cert. and hopefully it would have her parents names.

Looby :)


Offline loobylooayr

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Re: Peter Bennet Marshall, Bathgate, son of Robert Marshall and Jean Arthur
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 05 October 13 23:32 BST (UK) »
A little more info LillianCat,
on the 1841 Census - at Glaenmavis, New Monkland, Lanarkshire

Pitter Marshall    age 25  M   Labourer born out with Census County (spelling as transcribed on Freecen.) :D

This person is in the same household as -
Thomas Marshall           age   40  M    Labourer  Born outwith Census County
Marey Marshall              age   40  F                              ditto
Henry Marshall              age   11  M                   Born Lanarkshire
Margret Marshall            age   10  F                             ditto
Thomas Marshall            age    6   M                            ditto
James Marshall              age     4  M                             ditto
Andreu Marshall             age    1  M                              ditto

Pitter(Peter is listed below all the children)

On the 1851 Census - at Stand, New Monkland, Lanarkshire.

Thomas Marshall    Head  M    age 54    Labourer     Born Torphichen, West Lothian
Mary Marshall         Wife  F     age  52                     Born Torphichen, West Lothian
Thomas Marshall     Son  M     age 15   Coal Miner    Born New Monkland, Lanarkshire
Andrew Marshall      Son  M     age  11  Scholar        Born New Monkland ,Lanarkshire

Could Pitter be your Peter staying with Marshall relatives??

Looby :)

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Peter Bennet Marshall, Bathgate, son of Robert Marshall and Jean Arthur
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 06 October 13 09:57 BST (UK) »
There is a Robert Marshall who is married on January 1, 1816 in Bathgate to a spouse "name not given".
Are you sure that the actual marriage was on 1 January? Because in some cases the parish register just gives you the year, not the actual date, and on some sites that have only transcriptions such dates default to 1 January. You have to view the original to see what it actually says.

Quote
my understanding is that the church baptized all children without requiring the parents to formally marry
Yes, that is right. But generally the Kirk Session would pursue the parents of illegitimate children, partly in order to punish them for the sin of fornication, and partly to make sure that the father contributed to the upkeep of the child so that the child did not become a burden on the parish funds. The minutes of the Kirk Session are always worth checking because, if they have survived, the records of the case often contain quite a lot of information about the errant parents. In the case of Peter, you'd need to check both Bathgate and Slamannan, for reasons stated below. The KS minutes are mostly in the National Records of Scotland, and have been digitised, but they're not available online, so you'd need either to go to Register House in Edinburgh, or to one of the other archives that has a link to the NRS, or get someone to do so on your behalf.

Quote
Why not list the spouse?
Careless record-keeping, pur and simple. That, combined with the aupposed 1 January date, suggests that this marriage was stuck in as an afterthought by the parish clerk, who had heard that Robert Marshall had got married but didn't know whom he had married. Perhaps Robert Marshall's wedding was held outside the parish, or it was an irregular marriage, or celebrated in some denomination other than the Church of Scotland.

The IGI lists eight children of Robert Marshall and Jean Arthur, all but Peter born in Slamannan, between 1812 and 1827. These are from the 'community indexed' section so ought to be reliable. You need to look at all those baptisms see what they tell you.

FreeCEN has a Marshall family in the 1841 census at Bridgend, Slamannan matching the children of Robert M and Jean Arthur: Robert, 58, shoemaker; Jane, 54; Marion, 29; John, 22; Janet, 19: Mary, 17, all born Stirlingshire. Plus three other people, different surnames.

They're still there, at Avonbridge, Slamannan, in 1851: Robert, farmer, 68; wife Jean Aurthur, 65, birthplace unknown: Marion, 39, blind; John, 29; Janet, 26; Margaret, 22; gransdon Peter Millar, 11, born Carluke; and a servant. All born Stirlingshire except Jean and Peter.

A Robert Marshall, aged 74, died in Slamannan in 1858.

Of course it could be coincidence - another couple with the same names having family in the neighbouring county at the same time. Note that a Robert Marshall and Jean Arthur were married in Slamannan in 1810, and that not only was the marriage of a Robert Marshall to an unknown wife recorded in Bathgate in 1816, there was a similar record in 1814.

You can see the originals of all those marriages and baptisms, the census and Robert's death certificate at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk. Of course it could be coincidence - another couple with the same names having family in the neighbouring county at the same time, but you need to check even if only to eliminate them.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.


Offline LillianCat

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Re: Peter Bennet Marshall, Bathgate, son of Robert Marshall and Jean Arthur
« Reply #4 on: Friday 25 October 13 00:58 BST (UK) »
Hi Loobylooayr,

Thanks so much for any help with all this.

Yes, I believe I did see that 1841 census awhile ago, the one listing a Pitter as living with Thomas Marshall's family, and I must reconsider it, thanks for bringing it to my attention. It may be very likely that something happened to Jean Arthur that prevented her from raising the child? I will go back and take a look at the family that I "selected" as most likely being Robert Marshall's, and see if he had a brother named Thomas.

One of the problem I am running into is that EVERYONE has such similar names.

Thanks so much again!
Lilliancat

Offline LillianCat

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Re: Peter Bennet Marshall, Bathgate, son of Robert Marshall and Jean Arthur
« Reply #5 on: Friday 25 October 13 01:06 BST (UK) »
OH and Loobylooayr,

Glenmavis/New Monkland/Airdrie is the correct location for the next 2 generations in this line.
So this makes good sense.

Lilliancat

Offline LillianCat

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Re: Peter Bennet Marshall, Bathgate, son of Robert Marshall and Jean Arthur
« Reply #6 on: Friday 25 October 13 05:36 BST (UK) »
Thanks very much for your time and efforts, Forfarian, it will take me a bit to digest...

I looked again at the record for the Jan. 1, 1816 marriage for Robert Marshall in Bathgate.
It is a single column listing of male names with fees paid and is headed as "Proclamations".
No female names appear on the list, and the search I did also indicates that in Bathgate between 1814 and 1816 there were several Proclamations listed on January 1 of each year with no female name listed.
So, yes, you are correct, someone didn't like records keeping.

Peter Bennet Marshall's baptism listing has him "born of fornication" on Feb. 8, 1816 and baptized May 2, 1816 in Bathgate. I am assuming that the church pressured Robert to marry at the last minute, in the month before the child was born.

Thanks for the tip on the church minutes, now I have even more of a reason to go to Scotland, haha, not happening...

My feeling on the Slammanan Marshall/Arthur group is that they are a coincidental and parallel family with the same names. I have looked at that marriage registry and 2 of the children's birth registries, yes, it all takes place in Slamannan. THAT Robert and Jean were married in 1810 and I have constructed their family group. I can't invent an explanation for why Peter would be born in a different place, during the period the other children were being born in Slamannan, AND born of fornication. Unless Jean Arthur had an affair and everyone knew the child wasn't Robert's and so she had the baby in the town from Slamannan? I don't think so.

Jean Arthur was such a common name. I have found a death record for one from Bathgate in 1841, she was 46 and died of a fever. That would make this person 20 in 1816, which I assume would be a predictable(?) age to have a child born out of wedlock.

I have also found a mortcloth listing for a Jean Arthur in Torpichen from 3.24.1816. That would be a month and 2 weeks after the birth of the baby. The mortcloth is rented by a James Arthur. I did find a Robert Arthur and Elizabeth Bennet in Torpichen who had several children, starting in Torpichen and continuing in Bathgate. One of the children was named James, born in Torpichen in 1803. Another was named Jannet (Jean?), born in Torpichen in 1796. This could be an explanation for the lack of siblings for Peter Bennet Marshall, and an explanation as to why he may have been living with his uncle in the 1841 census.

And the family I have found for Robert Marshall-father's name Pitter-he would name his only son Peter-had a Thomas born in 1795. Hm, the ages of the Thomas listed on the 1841 and 1851 census don't make sense in any way.

I guess the church records would be the key.
Thanks very much again!
Lilliancat