Author Topic: George Ellems/Ellims  (Read 12491 times)

Offline Forfarian

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Re: George Ellems/Ellims
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 09 April 13 23:44 BST (UK) »
Just in case it may turn out to be relevant, I have 'lost' a George Elmslie. He was born in Tannadice, Angus in 1811, son of the village schoolmaster William Elmslie and his wife Ann Wilkie. I have no idea whether he died young, or grew up and emigrated. He would have been 36 or 37 in 1848, so it's not impossible that he was your 'scoundrel'.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline drbono

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Re: George Ellems/Ellims
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 10 April 13 02:47 BST (UK) »
Hi Forfarian,

Thank you for your input.  I have found some further information in recent days that might be helpful.

I believe I have located George Ellems' marriage certificate.  It is from 1850 and lists the groom as George Ellis and the bride as Margaret McPhilimy.  The marriage occurred at St Peters church in Melbourne - a Church of England service, however this is not too surprising as Church of England dominated early Melbourne religion.  Unfortunately, there are no further details on the certificate pertaining to date of birth, origin, etc.

Secondly, I have found a Presbyterian baptism certificate from 1853 pertaining to one of George Ellems' children - Ann Jane Elms.  The father is "George" and the mother is "Margeret" and the baptism occurred in Heidelberg where they lived. 

Thirdly, we have discovered the Melbourne prison records of a George Elms, born in ~1850, who is likely to be George Ellems' first son. 

From this it seems that the surname Ellems has been written as Elms (now on multiple occasions in this generation), as well as Ellis. 

It would not be too far a stretch to see the original derivation coming from a name like Elmslie - shortened it becomes Elms, and slightly jumbled in could become Ellems. 

A final amusing point is that the minister who baptised Ann Jane Elms was Rev Reid.  Rev Reid had a son who became a well known local politician around this time - his name was George Reid (the same alias chosen by George Ellems)!

Cheers, drbono

Offline loobylooayr

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Re: George Ellems/Ellims
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 10 April 13 09:01 BST (UK) »
Hi drbono,

Does your new information still suggest that George was born Elgin in Morayshire?
Where was that piece of information recorded?

Have found a likely candidate for on the IGI'S -
George Ellis born 4 May 1833 at St.Andrews Lhanbryd, Moray to Robert Ellis And Ann Adam.

On 1841 Census George Ellis age 8 is listed at St.Andrews Lhanbryd living with a Margaret Adam age 60, a midwife (probably his grandmother) and Archibald Simpson age 15.
I couldn't find him on the 1851 Census. And I couldn't find a marriage between his parents (not to say they weren't married :D, I just couldn't see one on IGI's)

So could this be the man of mystery? Certainly this George could have emigrated prior to 1850 and married at 17 years old.

Looby

PS. Forgot to mention Lhanbryde is a villiage abour 4 miles from Elgin and it has a St.Andrews Street! ;D

Offline drbono

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Re: George Ellems/Ellims
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 19 June 13 13:38 BST (UK) »
Just some updates regarding my relative.

I have found out more about George Ellems's wife Margaret McPhillimy.

It appears that she came to Australia via the ship "William Stewart" from Plymouth, England, arriving in Melbourne in 1848.  In the passenger list she is listed as "Margaret McFellamy", aged 20.  There is a Hugh McPhilimy aged 23, apparently her brother, on the same vessel.

I have certainly discovered her death certificate too.  She died in 1894 as "Mary Henchman" in Ballarat, near Melbourne.  Her parents are Hugh McPhillimy & Margaret McPhillimy (nee Noble) and the certificate states she was born in Tyrone, Ireland.  Finally, the certificate states her previous marriage to "George Ellims" and 5 children with their ages.  Her surname was Henchman as she had a civil marriage to Charles Hinchman.

So much of the mystery about George Ellems' wife have been solved but I have not obtained anything more on George Ellems himself.  The only document that states George's birthplace is an 1854 birth certificate of one of his five children, John.  It is unfortunate that I cannot find any of his other children's birth certificates to provide a confirmatory source of his origin. 


Offline drbono

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Re: George Ellems/Ellims
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 22 June 13 00:06 BST (UK) »
I think George Ellems/Ellims has been found!

George Ellis from Birnie, Elgin went for trial in 1844 in Inverness for forgery.  He was found guilty and sent to Australia in "exile" for 7 years.  He arrived in Melbourne (Port Phillip) by the Maitland ship in 1846.  I have discovered from the National Archives of Scotland that he was a carpenter.  He was 33 years old in 1846.

His birthplace, age, arrival time in Australia & occupation all fit.  Additionally, his 1844 charge for forgery matches his 1868 arrest for in Australia for forgery too. 

The Scottish 1841 census states he had a family (inc. 3 daughters) in Elgin - it appears he remained in Australia after his term of exile had expired.

His Australian marriage certificate from 1850 states his name as George Ellis - a question that may never be answered is why he changed his name to Ellems/Ellims.

Thank you to all that helped me on the forum! 

Offline loobylooayr

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Re: George Ellems/Ellims
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 22 June 13 08:15 BST (UK) »
Congratulations on making a break through! ;D
It certainly looks like George Ellis is a " good fit " for your George Ellims.
Just puzzled by your reference to George's 1850 Australian birth certificate ???. Why would a man be given an Australian birth cert?
Excuse me, if I'm being dense....it's just after eight on a Saturday morning and I'm not fully awake. Just browsing the site with my first mug of coffee for the day :D

Looby

Offline drbono

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Re: George Ellems/Ellims
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 22 June 13 09:04 BST (UK) »
Sorry Looby - the 1850 document is actually a marriage certificate - I have adjusted my post.

Offline Forfarian

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Re: George Ellems/Ellims
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 22 June 13 09:24 BST (UK) »
George is in the 1841 census at Thomshill, Birnie, Moray, described as a cartwright, with wife Isabella and daughter Joanna, 2 and Hellen, 1.

In 1851 Isabella, aged 40, described as house carpenter's wife, is at Thomshill with daughters Helen, 11; Christina, 9; and Helen, 7. Joanna, aged 12, is a servant in the household of William Taylor, farmer, at Pans Port, Elgin.

Thomshill http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NJ2157
Pans Port http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NJ2262

The IGI lists four children of George Ellis and Isabella Forsyth, who were married at Duffus, Moray on 3 June 1837.
Johanna Brander born 9 baptised 22 July 1838
Helen born 1 baptised 14 January 1840
Christinia born 25 baptised 31 October 1841
Isabella born 17 October baptised 1 November 1843

You should look up both censuses, the marriage and all four baptisms at SP to make sure that any transcription errors are your own, and also to note any additional details that may be in the baptism records, for example names of witnesses, who may give a clue to George's parentage.

According to http://libindx.moray.gov.uk/mainmenu.asp Isabella Forsyth or Ellis, wife of George Ellis, carpenter, and daughter of William Forsyth and Christina Mortimer, applied for relief from the parish of Birnie in 1854. The application will describe her circumstances and almost certainly refer to George having been transported, which is just the clinching detail you need. Isabella died on 22 July 1888 at Thomshill.

I am now getting into the realms of speculation. Traditionally a first daughter is named after her mother's mother, a second daughter after her father's mother and a third daughter after her mother. George and Isabella, however, named their third daughter after Isabella's mother and their fourth after Isabella.

It would be interesting to know why they chose an unconventional name for their first - could she have been named after one of the Brander family who were prominent in the Elgin area, and owned land in the parish of Duffus? Was George in some way connected to or indebted to the Brander family?

Noting that George and Isabella were married in Duffus, and that their second daughter was named Helen, I wonder whether George is the son of John Ellis and Helen Robertson, born 3 and baptised 11 October 1812 in the parish of Duffus?

LIBINDX records that Helen Robertson, wife of John Ellis, daughter of George Robertson and Margaret King, died at Deanshillock on 19 March 1855. This means that you are really, really, really lucky, because an 1855 death certificate lists all children, living and dead, of the deceased, often with their whereabouts. So go to Scotland's People and download a copy of this death certificate, and if it says that Helen had a son George, aged 42, in Australia, you have the proof you need.

Deanshillock http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NJ3056

If I am right, you also have not one, but two more generation on your tree.

Happy hunting!

Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Forfarian

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Re: George Ellems/Ellims
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 22 June 13 09:53 BST (UK) »
PS. Forgot to mention Lhanbryde is a villiage abour 4 miles from Elgin and it has a St.Andrews Street! ;D

I overlooked this one earlier.

For clarification, Lhanbryde is the only village in the parish of St Andrews-Lhanbryd (without the e!), sometimes referred to simply as St Andrews, and not to be confused with the burgh of St Andrews in the parish of St Andrews and St Leonards in the County of Fife.

The parish of St Andrews-Lhanbryd extends west into the burgh (town) of Elgin, where its boundary with the parish of Elgin is the River Lossie. So it is possible for someone to be born, or to live, in the burgh of Elgin but not the parish of Elgin, and for someone to live of be born in the burgh of Elgin and the parish of St Andrews-Lhanbryd.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.