Alder, gent and lottery winner 1767 .... Could he be related to my ancestors??

[BePauline]

I had a holiday to Oxford and visited the record office this week, and only after returning home did I realise I left some new paths untraced ..... 

I was trying, in fact, to find the ancestors and siblings of a Samuel Alder, victualler and drill sergeant in the oxford yeomanry, who died 1822 aged 55, in st Peter le Bailey, Oxford. (I only found all this out about him his week!!).  We found his will showing he left a lot of money and property to his family - 9 messauges and a mortgage for land and property worth £500. But we didn't think to trace a John Alder who witnessed the will!!!

From what I can gather from afar online, there was a gent nearby called John Alder. There was also a Benjamin Alder, also a victualler, nearby, and a spinster Sophia Alder and her married sister Hannah Wyatt. Benjamin and Sophia also left a lot of money in their wills (£800 and £450). I can't access what John left in his will from home online.

And today I found a John Alder, 1767 lottery winner in Abingdon who quickly changed from being a cooper to a gent!! He died in 1780. Could this be their father or grandfather? Are they all related anyway? Where could they have got their money from if they weren't related? (I can't find a birth for Samuel. His wife came from Devon and their eldest child was born in Bath. Their other children were born in Oxford).

If anyone can offer any assistance with any of this, I would be immensely grateful as I'm unlikely to be able to visit the records office again for years!!

[supermoussi]

Hi Pauline, I can't give any specific Alder info but if it is of any reassurance I have a poor Publican cousin who won the National Lottery in the early 1800s. He ditched the country pub and moved to a biggish house in the suburbs of London. When he died he too had become a "Gentleman" and divided up his money to his nephews (he was childless) who embarked on "life changes" as a result.

[DebbieG]

Hi Pauline

I don't know how much of this info you already have,  Samuel Alder who died in 1822 in St Peter le Bailey,  is listed in the Oxfordshire wills index as a slatter and plasterer (he was probably an inn keeper as well).  Although he died in St Peter le Bailey he was buried at St Ebbs - aged 55 as you said.  He and Jane had a son Samuel baptised at St Ebbs in 1802 before settleing in St Peter Bailey,  there seems to be a strong connection to the St Ebbs parish.  Earlier in the registers at St Ebbs there is another Samuel Alder married to an Elizabeth who has 4 children baptised there John (1767), James (1776),  William (1779) and Joseph in 1782.  I have found an apprentice record for Joseph in 1792 -
Joseph Alder son of Samuel Alder of St Ebbs parish slater & plasterer to Thomas Taylor, tailor for 7 years from 1Nov 1792

So it seems that the elder Samuel was also a slater and plasterer,  I think it is very likely that Samuel the younger (died 1822) is a son of this Samuel - but as you say I can't see a baptism for him.  I also can't find a marriage for the elder Samuel to his wife Elizabeth,  it's not under ALDER or ALLDER in the Oxfordshire marriage index.

I will see if I can find any other pieces.

DebbieG

[DebbieG]

A few more bits about Benjamin (who might or might not fit in). 

He died in 1823 buried in St Ebb aged 43 so born about 1780 (I can't see a baptism for him at St Ebb)
3 baptisms for daughters of Benjamin & Hannah Alder from St Ebb
1806 Hannah,  1809 Elizabeth,  1812 Sophia

Hannah Alder is buried at St Ebb 1818 aged 39

There is a marriage for Benjamin Alder wdr to Sarah Meads 1819
and a marriage for Hannah Alder to George Wyatt of St Mary Magdeline in 1828

This all fits in with a note from the Oxfordshire archives
Title    Assignment of Lease
Description    
PARTIES:
1. Samuel Collingwood (as in 2D/3).
2. Sarah Booth (as in 2D/4).
3. Hannah Knapp of Oxford, Widow and administratix of James Knapp.
4. a) George Wyatt of Oxford, Builder. b) Hannah Wyatt, Wife of 4a and administratix of Sophia Alder, her sister.
5. John Parker (as in 2D/4).
PROPERTY: Property on the corner of the road from St. Ebbes to St. Aldates Church now a Public House known as the Three Tuns, with a private dwelling house adjoining.
CONSIDERATION: £85 (from 5 to 1); £250 (from 5 to 4a).
COMMENTS: James Knapp left his property to his daughter Hannah, the wife of Benjamin Alder (4b and Sophia Alder were their daughters). On his wife's death, Alder married 2, and then died
intestate, his property being divided between 2 and 4. 2 and 4 now agree to sell their interest in the property to 5.
Date    29/Jun/1836

So some of the estate left by Benjamin and then his daughter Sophia was inherited from his first marriage to Hannah Knapp.

DebbieG

[BePauline]

Hmmm you found some interesting things .. and tie up some loose ends ...

It looks like Benjamin didn't necessarily get his money from his own ancestors, and that he might not, therefore, have been related to Samuel.

It's a pity it's not easy to find the births of Benjamin and Samuel .. but it's useful to know that Sophia and Hannah were Benjamin's children.

Thanks for your efforts so far, Debbie. Much appreciated.
Pauline

[BePauline]

Hi DebbieG

I've been looking at some notes I took when I visited Oxford a few weeks ago for a holiday and noticed that I have the birth records for several children born to Samuel and Elizabeth Alder.

I don't have John in 1767, but I do have the other ones you have, plus Samuel 1774 and Anne 1771 in 'St Mary May' (if I'm reading my handwriting correctly!!).

I discounted them because this Samuel would have been only 48 years old in 1822, rather than 55 as records show 'our' Samuel was.  But then there's also the potential discrepancy that  if Joseph became an apprentice in 1792, he would have only been 10 years old.  Would that be feasible, do you think??

But then with 2 age discrepancies I'm wondering a) whether Samuel and Elizabeth simply baptised their children at an older age than usual, or b) the two bunches of names are from different but related families, with similar names and occupations.

Have you any thoughts on that, and do you think there's any more information to be gleaned from the records?