Gorringe of Ringmer/Glynde query

[hinding]

I am trying to clarify a few things about Elizabeth Gorringe (nee Ansell) – the one who was born in West Firle in c.1785, originally from Ringmer, removed to Glynde in 1816 and is on the censuses in Glynde from 1841 – 1871.
She married a Thomas Gorringe, and there is a record of Elizabeth Ansell marrying Thomas Gorringe on 27th Sep 1805 at West Firle. However, just about all the family trees (on Ancestry) show this Elizabeth Ansell as being born in Hartfield in 1775 (and listing most of the children which, I think, belong to ‘my’ Elizabeth).
There is an Elizabeth Ansell, christened on 4th Dec 1785 at West Firle, daughter of Philip Ansell & Dorothy, on genealogydepot.com.
So, my (initial) questions are - which Elizabeth married Thomas in 1805? and which Thomas did ‘my’ Elizabeth marry – is it the one born 1783 & died 1844? (once again, at odds with most trees on Ancestry). Also, I’m sure I’ve read that Elizabeth was already a widow in 1841…

Hope that makes sense! Any clarifications would be very welcome… Many thanks
hinding

[sillgen]

The Sussex Marriage Index shows that in 1805 Elizabeth is of West Firle and Thomas Gorringe is of Denton.  No witness names shown.
The Elizabeth Gorringe in Glynde in 1841 is age 54.   She has with her Elizabeth age 17 and Alfred age 11.  All born in the county.  The 1841 does not show relationships, nor indicate if people are widowed.
There are also two other children in the household.    William Murison? age 11   George Dowling age 3.
I see that in 1861 she has a "cousin" Mary Maynard living with her.    Have you traced her back to see what the connection is?   She is also with Elizabeth in 1851 and 1871 but as a "boarder".   Elizabeth is shown as supported by her sons and the widow of an ag lab in 1851.
Did any of her children marry after 1837?    Those records should show father's name and occupation.

[sillgen]

Glynde burial records show one entry for a Thomas Gorringe age 61 in 1844.   I can't see him in that area in 1841.
The baptisms of some of their children show Thomas as a labourer of Moor Lane, Glynde.

[sillgen]

Mary Maynard is born c 1809.  Thomas Maynard of Eastbourne married Susanna Ansell in West Firle in 1808 so that may be the connection.

[swebby]

Hi hinding

On my East Sussex Removals CD there is a note next to the 1816 removal suggesting that the couple is Thomas Francis Gorringe and Elizabeth Franks married 12th Jan 1809 Burwash. The children with them were Frances 9, Harriet 7, William 5 and Grace 4.

Regards
Sean

[sillgen]

Interesting.    Grace was baptised at Ringmer Jan 17 1813 - abode Lodom.  Not sure where that is.  Thomas is a labourer again.
However the licence for Thomas Francis Gorringe shows him as a Surgeon and marrying Harriet Eliza Franks.   The marriage does say Elizabeth Franks.  He is age 29 and up.  She is age 22 and up.

Hinding - How did you get back to Elizabeth Ansell?     That may be the way to sort this by going back to basics and seeing what you have proof for.
There is no suitable marriage in Sussex for a Philip Ansell to Dorothy so where did that information come from?

[sillgen]

The Elizabeth baptised on 4 Dec 1785 is daughter of John Ansell and Dorothy.     John, a widower who was a glover of West Firle, married Dorothy Duly in Glynde on Jun 21 1775.  They married by licence.
His first wife seems to have been Mary Dewly - maybe sisters?
Other baptisms for their children are

Elizabeth Beezy/Beegy 30 June 1776 - could the first Elizabeth have died?
Thomas 1780
William 1778

Dorothy died in 1805

[hinding]

Thank you both – interesting stuff. The christening/parent details for Elizabeth came from genealogydepot.com – but now I look again the parents are John & Dorothy, as you state (I must have mis-read…)
I believe the Elizabeth Gorringe in Glynde is the mother of Frances who married Isaac Wickison Comber  in Glynde church in Feb 1830. On the 1841 census William Wickison (incorrectly transcribed as Wierson) is Elizabeth’s grandson (first son of Isaac & Frances) & Frederick Wickison is another grandson with her in 1851 & 1861. The last son of Isaac & Frances was George Wickison (born Oct 1850, when Frances died) who was brought up by Grace Seal (in Brighton) who, I believe, was nee Gorringe, born c 1813 (i.e. tying in with the kids’ names & ages on the removal order).

How I came to identify this Elizabeth as nee Ansell, I can’t actually recall – maybe just trusted in others’ family trees – although the Mary Maynard cousin connection you mention looks like it might bear this out.  I guess I also assumed that events in West Firle & Glynde are more likely to be connected than others further afield (without actually proving anything).

It sounds like the removal order might hold some clues, if we could be sure which Thomas that was… (would a surgeon have been subjected to a removal order, though?)

[sillgen]

Some trees on Ancestry have Thomas the surgeon going to Australia so if they are correct it seems unlikely that he left wife and children behind - unless he was a convict.
If you join the Sussex Family History Group you could spend many a happy hour look at all the baptisms/burials that they have online.     It is a modest annual sub.   It shows that Frances, daughter of Thomas and Elizabeth, was baptised in Ringmer in 1806, 7th April.
The marriage in 1830 is to Isaac Wickison Comber of Brighton.   Did they drop the Comber bit?