JOHN O'BRIEN - TATE AND LYLE LIVERPOOL

[Marieeliz]

John O'Brien was born in Ireland and married to Mary Hughes. I know a few things about his family and they are on 1881 and 1891 census. My grandmother Elizabeth O'Brien, married name France, was their daughter. He worked in Tate and Lyle. I was told he was killed in an accident in Tate and Lyle. I have purchased a couple of death certificates for a John O'Brien's neither of which were correct. They also had a son called Thomas who I was also told was killed accidently. I also had a death certificate for a 4 year old Thomas O'Brien which wasn't the correct one.

The reason I have started to pursue this again, after many years, is that I have been contacted by my mother's cousin also John O'Brien, I haven't seen this relation or spoken to him since the 50's, when he was 4 and I was 10, but someone looked on my tree trying to help and gave him my name as they had also come to a dead end trying to get more information.

The strange thing is that, my late brother Charles John Williams, served in the Royal Navy in 1960's on the Ark Royal and so did my Mum's cousin. His son, my third cousin, I am told is also serving in the Navy as a Commander in the Fleet Air Arm connected to the newly named Queen Elizabeth launched today. I also served in the WRNS in the 60's. As John O'Brien said to me "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree". Any help appreciated.

[CaroleW]

Hi

Can you include the birthyears for John, Mary, Thomas & Elizabeth

What is the last census he appears on -?? 1891

Is Mary shown as a widow on the following census - ??1901

[garstonite]

see if this helps Carol
Mary Ann O`Brien baptised 1883 at St Nicholas ,Liverpool parents John O`Brien and Mary Hughes
Elizabeth Ellen O`Brien baptised 1885 at Holy Cross,Liverpool - parents John O`Brien and Mary Hughes

http://www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co.uk/liverpoolrcbaptisms/baptisms.php

baptisms 1883 - 1900  I can only presume Thomas was born pre 1883
maybe this is them in 1881 census as O`Brian...if it is Thomas is b 1880/1881
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XQDD-7BS

[garstonite]

Marieliz...it will take a long time if you don`t know the year of death - but have a look through these deaths and inquests in the Liverpool newspaper of the time
good luck
http://www.old-merseytimes.co.uk/deathsandinquestsmain.html

[Marieeliz]

Thank you for the replies. Unfortunately, I only have information given by my mother when she was alive and it was all very general, she was born 1905. I now her granny was a Widow as my Mum was growing up. It was my Mum who told me the Tate and Lyle story plus the one about her Mum's brother being killed.

I have a little more information in the 1911 census Mary is shown as a Widow married 30 years she had 6 children of whom only 2 were living my Nan and her sister Mary Ann. Thomas was born in January 1881 and died September 1884. Mary Ann was born in 1884. Thomas died shortly after the census in June 1911.

[Blue70]

Did you get the death certificate for this one?

Death Index

Name: John O'Brien
Registration Year: 1900
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 62
Registration district: Liverpool
Volume: 8b
Page: 120


Burial

Name: John O'Brien
Age: 62
Death Year: 1900
Burial Date: 4 Sep 1900
Parish: Ford Cemetery, Lancashire, England
Address: Liverpool Coroner
Burial Type: Public
Grave: BZ 2931

Note: records show grave as B 2931 but burials refer to section BZ



Blue

[lizdb]

Maybe one of the death certs you have IS the correct one, and the family story about the fatal accident at Tate And Lyle is not quite accurate?
Family stories so often get changed over the years, maybe he did have an accident at T &L but that wasnt the cause of his death, or something like that.

[lizdb]

Is Mary shown as a widow on the following census - ??1901

This was an important question of Carols, in order to narrow down when John died.

To answer it, here is Mary in 1901

RG 13  3417  20  31

48 Peach Street, Liverpool
Mary O'Brien 56 widow charwoman bn Liverpool
Elizabeth 16 dtr domestic servant bn Liverpool

So, you now know John died 1891-1901.


Here is the 1891, with John still alive

RG 12  2913  118  32
Edward Street, Liverpool
John O'Brian 45 general labourer bn Ireland
Mary 34 bn Liverpool
Mary 10
Elizabeth 5

[Marieeliz]

Thank you for your help. Yes, I have had the death cert. for the John O'Brien 62. He had no home address and was obviously homeless. The two others were registered by wife and father and address was not any of the recognised family addresses. The addresses given are all familiar to me Peach Street, Ainsworth St. my gggrandmother lived there and my Mum mentioned them often. I also believe they lived in Edward Street at some point. I have now passed the certs onto Liverpool FHS for their collection.

I appreciate what you are saying re family stories and must admit I always took my Mum's tales with "a pinch of salt" but she has been proved right every time until now.