Should I just give up now?

[Romilly]

Did your grandfather have any more siblings?

Where did your grandfather stand in the family hierechy.sp Was William Havelock older than William James?

If there was an older sister she may  have been named after her mother whose surname may have been Havelock.  Just thoughts!

Sandra

Sorry Sandra,

I didn't make that very clear. William Havelock Wilson was the eldest son of William James Wilson, - my late father's brother and my Uncle. I am fairly certain that the 'Havelock' in his name was a tribute to the leader of the Seaman's Union, Joseph Havelock Wilson.
I have no info as to whether William James Wilson had any siblings, if I did it would make finding him much easier l'm sure.

Romilly.

[macberry]

No, keep on looking. Never give up, check all angles

[Romilly]

To Recap...

These are the dates & ages that I have for William James Wilson:

On his wedding day in Swansea on the 23rd June 1893, he gives his age as 32yrs.
On the 1901 Census for Wales (taken on the 31st March 1901) his age is given as 40yrs.
On the 1911 Census for Wales (taken on the 2nd April 1911) his age is given as 51yrs.
On his Death Cert, in London, in December 1937, his son gives his age as 77yrs.

Romilly.

[Yasmina4]

  Oh dear!

Regards Sandra

[FionaO]

No! Never!

Was the painting company Limited?  If so, have you tried Companies House to see if there's anymore info there.

Also, do you have a copy of his will?  It might have some useful info.....

Keep at it - the info is there somewhere......

[Romilly]

No! Never!
Was the painting company Limited?  If so, have you tried Companies House to see if there's anymore info there.
Also, do you have a copy of his will?  It might have some useful info.....
Keep at it - the info is there somewhere......

Hi FionaO,

Yes, Wilson and Co was a limited Company, and ran from 1895 - 1932.

I wrote to Companies House a few years back, and they replied saying that the papers relating to the Company had been destroyed in the 1970's!!

I don't believe that William James Wilson left a Will, - he's certainly not on Ancestry's Probate Lists.

Romilly.

[Romilly]

I'm still wondering if theres some Scottish connection here, - mainly on the strength of his sons names...

They were: William Havelock Wilson (1894-1974)
Evan Douglas Wilson (1896-1957) (My father, always known as Doug).
Ernest Rencella Wilson (1897-1957) (Registered initially as 'Alice Rencella Wilson', - Gender and name reassigned as 'Clerical Error' 3 months later).
George Felix Wilson (1900-1970) (Architect known professionally as 'Felix Wilson').
Richard Wilson (1901-1959)
Archibald Wilson (1902-1930). (Committed suicide at home aged 26yrs).

Its mainly the Douglas & Archibald that make me wonder, - theres no-one with those names on the Swansea Rees side...

[FionaO]

Ah Romilly, don’t look so sad......

It is interesting the name of Havelock being given to your Uncle.  That would suppose a watery connection quite strong.  Have you thought about slightly further away from Manchester, Liverpool (still in Lancs) is not too far and has strong sea connections, or even as far as Sunderland?

My parents originate from Lancashire and Yorkshire but going further back they do seem to have wandered down from further north.  And Havelock is such an unusual name, according to Wiki (keeping an open mind) he didn’t come to prominence until the late 1880’s and your Uncle was born, the youngest, in 1894.  From my research it does seem quite flattering to give your first born the middle name of someone unrelated, especially as in 1894 his union was not doing so well.

And Rencella,  delightful name if ever I saw one but any idea where it comes from?  I can find no other Rencella’s anywhere.  I’ve got the only Runnert in the world in my family and his name appears out of thin air and I can’t get beyond him either – yes, he’s from Manchester from 1843, perhaps it’s a Mancunian joke on the rest of us mortals. Also, Manchester, though in Lancashire has Cheshire edging it so don’t discount that county (border movements, etc).

Have you seen 1881 census 26 St Michaels Place, Manchester;  William Wilson, aged 20, lodger, single, calico printer, born Manchester?  If his father was a mason, he would have needed to be literate and would probably have passed it down.

But about the will, I’m thinking it’s very strange for a man who ran a business not to have left a will.  Only because I’m looking for some of mine at the moment I can tell you it looks quite easy (famous last words) even without a date.  You’ll need to download form pa1s ‘Application for a probate search (copies of grants and wills)’ from www.justice.gov.uk, fill it in, send it off and see what happens.  I’ve got a grandfather I’m sure would have a will but also can’t find.  I’m going to try an 8 year search period (£10) and see if anything turns up.  It may not contain anything useful but worth a try – and if it includes his date of birth......

[Romilly]

Hi Fiona,

Many thanks for your thoughts, - greatly appreciated.

Re:  '1881 census 26 St Michaels Place, Manchester;  William Wilson, aged 20, lodger, single, calico printer, born Manchester?' Yes, I too noticed this chap, & followed him through the later Censuses, - but sadly it's not my Grandfather.

The only thing that I could find re: Rencella, - is that it appears to be a Dutch female name. Alice Rencella Wilson was ammended to Ernest Rencella Wilson when his gender was reassigned as a 'Clerical Error' at 3mths. But perhaps there was some ambiguity? (He never married). I also have a theory that William James Wilson's mother was an Alice, - (there are no Alice's on the Rees side of the family). I got quite a shock when I sent off for Ernest's Birth Cert, because not only is my daughter an Alice, but she has the same birthday as him, - the 8th August! (Isn't family history strange?). Following on from this I searched for an 'Alice Rencella', - but found nothing...

I have numerous books here still, inscribed to me from my late Uncle, William Havelock Wilson, - but I never once thought to ask him where the name came from:-(

Re: Sunderland... from 1912 - 1916 my late father worked for The Taylor and Sanderson Steam Shipping Company; which operated from Sunderland. It seemed rather odd when I found that, as Swansea, - where my father was born and lived until 1932, was a big port, and I have no idea why he would go to Sunderland instead...

I should add that my father was 30yrs older than my mother, and married and had children late in life... and so I have had to try and piece together his family from scratch really, as I knew so little. My late Uncle tried his best, but my mother only let us see him very rarely. He used to send me copies of 'The Manchester Guardian' when I was a student, and lots of books. He was a very interesting and erudite man, (he started learning Mandarin Chinese when he was in his late 70's). I wish I had known him better.

Thanks for all of the interesting suggestions, - I will send off for the Probate, but the Wilson's were all pretty terrible about making Wills, - the only one that I've been able to find is for George Felix Wilson, - the rest seem to have died intestate.

All Best Wishes for 2013,
Romilly.