Scottish records

[Forfarian]

Where did you find this entry?

If you mean the marriage I referred to, I got it in the Roman Catholic banns and marriages on Scotland's People www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk but could not find it in the statutory records on the same site.

If you mean the mention of what might be Koblenz, it was in one of the earlier messages in this thread.

[penstemon5]

Hi thanks for the quick reply.
I did mean the marriage entry.
Did you search with the Female surname Rap and forename Anna? and St Mary's Hamilton in the drop down menu, as I can't find the record at all.
Sorry to be a nuisance

[Forfarian]

You misunderstand me. The marriage I found was not your Anna Rap's. It was just to say that the one you are looking for is not the only that is in the Roman Catholic records, and not in the statutory records although it ought to be.

[penstemon5]

Thanks, Forfarian. Yes I did misunderstand you.
Does anyone know any other way to find the statutory record for a marriage that we can see in the RC records? ie Andrew Raap - Ann Bodden 21 May 1856?

[MonicaL]

This marriage entry might not be there to be found. Forfarian also had a similar experience, as discussed above, where a statutory marriage was just not found. Have to say this is a rare occurence, but did happen.

This won't help, but I do not think that Andrew married three Annas in a row over the space of six years The name Andrew Raap is so unusual in Scotland. I think he is the only one mentioned in Glasgow at that time. I am thinking that the first Ann Bodden and the next Anna Pillischer may be the same person. There are mistakes that happen sometimes. The potential here is that there was a problem with the recording of a RC marriage on the statutory register (not long after the start of official registration in Scotland) and on top of that, the bride's name is different (but in both cases German origin).

You certainly have Andrew from his 1861 census entry with (first?) wife Anna, then he remarried in 1862 to another Anna (she is relatively straightforward to fit in) and then third time in 1863 to Susan Gunn. You have the link of addresses connecting these events. You also have the death of (first?) wife Anna (with the issue we have seen on the surname) and second wife Anna.

Were there any details other that bride and groom's name on that 1856 RC parish entry? Ages for them, occupation for Andrew, witnesses names?

No children seem to show from either of the two marriages to Annas, except the one you mentioned...Andrew Raap child, stillborn on March 15 1863, 2 days before Anna died...can't have been a stillborn birth though otherwise the baby would not have been recorded on the birth register. Stillborn births at this time were not recorded.

Monica

[ITBookworm]

I have been having a play on ScotlandsPeople to see if I could find any clues

There is a single statutory marriage for a male "A* R*" marrying a "A* B*" in 1856 in the whole of Scotland. If you narrow that down further you can get to a male "A* Re*" (but not An* Re*) marrying "Ann* Be*" (but not Anne or Anna) 1856, County of Lanark, District of Hutchesontown.

St John's RC church appears to have been demolished but if my searching on google is correct it was originally in Portugal Street, Glasgow. That could have been technically Gorbals district but Hutchesontown is certainly in the same area...

I'm afraid I don't have any credits at the moment to see what the full names are on the index for that record but I would have thought it worth a go. I did think of trying all the combinations to see if I could work it out but I didn't have the patience

[MonicaL]

Here is a thought for you.... ...on top of ITBookworm's searches!

We have the confusion on surnames for first wife Anna. What if she was married before and her married surname was Badden (and spelling variants) and her maiden name was Pillischer? The reason she and Andrew may not have had any children may have been down to her age perhaps?

In Scotland, women never 'lose' their maiden names by law. This is the reason that married women's maiden names are so prominent in records in Scotland. You can always search by maiden name and married surname for women on SP for example. Gravestones clearly show a married women with her maiden name etc...

But if you were German by origin, this may not have been a practice you followed!

We had this entry earlier from 1861:

Andrew Rap 37 pork butcher b. Alphinstart (?spl), Germany
Anna Rap 40 b. Coblans (?spl), Germany

Address: 8 King St, Glasgow/Clyde

Have been looking around to see whether we can pick up anything earlier and saw this entry from 1851:

Mathew Baden 36 flesher b. Germany
Anna Boden 35 b. Germany

Address: 46 Sauchihall Street, Barony

Flesher, sure you know this but just in case, is another word for a butcher. So, would fit well with Andrew and connections to come.

Need to see if there is a death for Matthew after 1855 to add to this theory!

Monica

[MonicaL]

Circumstantial evidence, but often better than nothing!

There is a RC death/burial showing in 1852 (drat  ):

Matthew Bodden, 38, death or burial date showing as 08/02/1852. Burial at Old Dalbeth Cemetery in Glasgow.

Monica

PS: Regardless of new clues, still no statutory marriage entry for Andrew and Anna (number one). Booo!

[penstemon5]

Gosh, you are amazing. I am a relative (excuse the pun!) beginner at this.
I will see where all this takes me.
Thank you very much.