Author Topic: Patrick Roche and Bridget Welsh County Galway  (Read 4570 times)

Offline Rayjamgor

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Patrick Roche and Bridget Welsh County Galway
« on: Monday 10 March 14 18:35 GMT (UK) »
Looking for any info on GG grandfather Patrick Roche and wife Bridget Welsh daughter of Patrick and Mary Welsh.They married in Glasgow 1865 and the 1891 census they have Ireland Co Galway and looks like they spoke Gaelic.Daughter Bridget married Robert Clarke and the 1901 census his birth country was Ireland.On his marriage lines in 1889 his parents are Alexander Clarke and Eliza Welsh making me think theres a family connection with the Welsh name.
Gordon, Taylor , Little, Clark, McInnes/McGinnes ,Roch,Roche, Millar/Miller, Welsh,Walsh, Stewart, Kennedy, McDonald, Brown, McLachlan , Orr, McMillan, McDonagh, Middleton, Robertson, Livingstone, Duff, Hunter, McClean, Campbell, Brown ,Cummings ,Roy, Wade ,Smith , Kelly,Kennedy,McDonald.

Offline taramcdsmall

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Re: Patrick Roche and Bridget Welsh County Galway
« Reply #1 on: Monday 10 March 14 23:16 GMT (UK) »
Hi There

We'll need some more info to be able to help as they were both born before civil registration !

When were Patrick Roche and Bridget Welsh born ?

What information have you gotten on their parent's from their marriage cert, ie their father's names and occupations ?

Were Patrick and his wife Bridget still alive on the 1911 Census which can sometimes give a townland as opposed to justs a county ?

Tara

Offline Rayjamgor

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Re: Patrick Roche and Bridget Welsh County Galway
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 11 March 14 00:37 GMT (UK) »
Hi Tara , Patrick and Bridget were married in 09/10/1865 in St Alphonsus Chapel Glasgow and all there is ,is a picture of there names written in a book . Got that from Scotlands People so no names for Patricks parents . he was born 1838 and Bridget was born 1840.  On Bridgets death certificate 02/03/1913 aged 72  her parents are Patrick Welsh and Mary Welsh (maiden name Welsh too). Patricks death 25/05/1913  was found on Scotlands People  same  as his wedding with just a picture in St Peters cemetery Dalbeth Glasgow.  On the 1911 census there aged 73 and 71 and only says Ireland for both and Glasgow for son Patrick 41.  1891 census has Co Galway ,G&E for both of them.1901 census says Ireland too. I can get loads info on them in Glasgow but none for Ireland, a conundrum  :o    Ray .
Gordon, Taylor , Little, Clark, McInnes/McGinnes ,Roch,Roche, Millar/Miller, Welsh,Walsh, Stewart, Kennedy, McDonald, Brown, McLachlan , Orr, McMillan, McDonagh, Middleton, Robertson, Livingstone, Duff, Hunter, McClean, Campbell, Brown ,Cummings ,Roy, Wade ,Smith , Kelly,Kennedy,McDonald.

Offline taramcdsmall

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Re: Patrick Roche and Bridget Welsh County Galway
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 11 March 14 21:14 GMT (UK) »
Hi There Ray,

I've no great knowledge with Scottish records but have you tried getting the actual marriage certificate as opposed to the church record to see if there is any more info on it.

Also Patrick's actual death certificate as opposed to the church record.

It might be tricky with Bridget's family because even though you have parent's names on her death cert I am always hesitant to trust them as the information would be given by someone else whom may not have been sure and could have guessed.

Also, the surname Welsh is a tricky one, I know a lot of people whom use that as their surname but whose old records all say Walsh, so you need to keep that surname in mind when researching.

So, the problem then is that Walsh is a very common Galway surname.

I did a quick check on the free index on ifhf (runs similar to Scotland's People - pay per view) -  I saw a Bridget Welsh 1840 and a Bridget Welsh 1842 both whose parent's are listed as Patrick Walsh and Mary Walsh, both are listed in Kilcummin Oughterard (possible first Bridget passed away) - funny Kilcummin Oughterard is a defo area that I know people whom Welsh / Walsh are interchangeable.

So, at this point there is no defo way to say if this is one and the same Bridget as not all old church records are on ifhf.

Roche / Roach is a much rarer Galway surname so I think if you get leads re Patrick's parents you may have an easier time there !

Tara


Offline Rayjamgor

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Re: Patrick Roche and Bridget Welsh County Galway
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 11 March 14 22:54 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Tara , have checked there marriage cert on the Scottish Catholic Archives and unfortunately you cant order that . Ive asked on there forum if its possible to get an extract . Did the Patrick Walsh and Mary show as having same surname as maiden surname . Found that strange as got me thinking maybe Mary was a cousin of Patrick.  Patrick Roches daughter Bridget marries a Robert Clarke an Irishman and his mother is a Eliza Welsh . Also on my mothers side is a James Welsh going back to 1850,s.
 Doh ! just found Patrick Roches death cert , his father was Michael ,butcher and mother Helen McDonagh so im guessing they were from Galway . thanks again for your help Tara  ;)
Gordon, Taylor , Little, Clark, McInnes/McGinnes ,Roch,Roche, Millar/Miller, Welsh,Walsh, Stewart, Kennedy, McDonald, Brown, McLachlan , Orr, McMillan, McDonagh, Middleton, Robertson, Livingstone, Duff, Hunter, McClean, Campbell, Brown ,Cummings ,Roy, Wade ,Smith , Kelly,Kennedy,McDonald.

Offline Rayjamgor

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Re: Patrick Roche and Bridget Welsh County Galway
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 12 March 14 08:34 GMT (UK) »
Hi Tara , got help from  the Talking Scotland forum . Patrick Roche went by the name Pat Roch in his marriage lines and his father is Michael Roch , butcher  and Helen McDonagh   . You were right about the Walsh link  ;)Bridget Welsh shows up as Bridget Walsh on cert look up  with father Patrick  and Mary Welsh stated as parents .Patick Welsh was labourer in boatyard.  the written cert looks as if its Welsh thats written down . 1861 census i have Bridget Walsh living in Kirk st  Calton Glasgow aged 21 as a lodger  , same street she lives with Patrick after marrying. Making her birth year as 1840 ish. Does that tie in with births you got ? Still only get Ireland as place of Birth , damn those inefficient council workers  :o  :) Thanks again Ray
Gordon, Taylor , Little, Clark, McInnes/McGinnes ,Roch,Roche, Millar/Miller, Welsh,Walsh, Stewart, Kennedy, McDonald, Brown, McLachlan , Orr, McMillan, McDonagh, Middleton, Robertson, Livingstone, Duff, Hunter, McClean, Campbell, Brown ,Cummings ,Roy, Wade ,Smith , Kelly,Kennedy,McDonald.

Offline taramcdsmall

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Re: Patrick Roche and Bridget Welsh County Galway
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 12 March 14 16:17 GMT (UK) »
Hi There Ray

You've gotten some much better leads there to go on but I'm afraid I'm not getting them to add up to much over here :(

Fingers crossed someone may read this whom is connected somehow - it has happened before !

Best Of Luck !

Tara

Offline Rayjamgor

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Re: Patrick Roche and Bridget Welsh County Galway
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 15 February 17 10:20 GMT (UK) »
Managed to get a wee breakthrough re the Welsh side of the family . On Patrick and Bridgets marriage cert it states her father Patrick is a boat yard labourer the same as husband Patrick. Found a marriage cert of Patrick Welsh 50 in  1865 marrying Catherine McMannoman 30  in Clyde Street Glasgow and living in New Street,Calton Glasgow , the small village where Pat and Bridget are living.His occupation is boat yard labourer and widower, father John Welsh,landholder and mother Mary Sheridan both deceased.Witness to Patrick's death the following year is brother John Welsh also New Street ,Calton.
Gordon, Taylor , Little, Clark, McInnes/McGinnes ,Roch,Roche, Millar/Miller, Welsh,Walsh, Stewart, Kennedy, McDonald, Brown, McLachlan , Orr, McMillan, McDonagh, Middleton, Robertson, Livingstone, Duff, Hunter, McClean, Campbell, Brown ,Cummings ,Roy, Wade ,Smith , Kelly,Kennedy,McDonald.