Help Finding Kinnear Family in 1881 Census, Glasgow

[GuitarGirl]

According to family tales, my great grandfather James Kinnear was born at Pollokshaws, Paisley. His age at death suggests he was born in 1876. I can find the family at Birkenhead, Cheshire in the 1891 English census, with widow Elizabeth B Kinnear bc1837, son James bc1875, and son William bc1876, all born Glasgow. According to James Kinnear's marriage lines in 1898 his father was William Kinnear, cashier, decd.

I cannot find them in the 1881 census of England, and there are so many possible matches in the Scottish census I wouldn't know where to start searching. Can anyone help please?

[MonicaL]

Hi GuitarGirl

Welcome to RootsChat 

You have them already for 1891 in Egremont, Liscard, Cheshire. I have included the entry below for background to the post here:

Elizabeth Kinnear 54 b. Scotland
James Kinnear 15 son b. Scotland
William Kinnear 15 son b. Scotland
Joseph Dickson 27 son in law b. Scotland
Mary Dickson 29 daughter b. Aswesbry, Shropshire
Mary Dickson 5 granddaughter b. Seacombe, Cheshire

Also in Liscard, Cheshire (Tollemache St (Rock Light Villa) in 1881 is this entry:

Jane Doughty 81 widow b. Strabane, Ireland
Jane Dickson 13 grandchild b. Glasgow
John Abercromby 9 grandchild b. Liverpool
William Kinsard 4 grandchild b. Glasgow
James Kinsard 4 grandchild b. Glasgow
Elizabeth Dickson 13 grandchild b. Glasgow

What is the source of James being born in Pollokshaws Renfrewshire? Is there some document that his birth place gave this location?

Monica

[MonicaL]

Sure it will confusing for you with names and relationships...until you get familiar with them all!

I think these are the Dickson girls from the 1881 census with grandmother Jane. This is from 1871, with their parents in New Brighton, Liscard Cheshire:

James Dickson 32 b. Scotland
Martha Dickson/Docherty 32 b. Ireland
William Dickson 9 b. Scotland https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VQQD-W4G
Annie Dickson 5 b. Scotland https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQQ3-5QX
Jane Dickson 3 b. Scotland https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQCB-BLG
Jane Doherty 70 mother in law b. Ireland
Henry Haney 16 boarder b. Liverpool

Added: Found it here now https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VBJ7-RT6?cc=1538354

Children showing as born to James Dickson and wife Martha from 1858 in Scotland. Parents married 1856 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTY9-D5N

Following this family through, we have some of their children staying with Grandmother Jane Docherty in 1881 and the two Kinnair boys. I think this is the rest of the Dickson family and Elizabeth Docherty/Kinnair in 1881 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XQDH-LKQ Elizabeth showing as already widowed by 1881 and sister in law to James Dickson.

Monica

[MonicaL]

I am hoping that by following Martha Docherty, sister of Elizabeth, who married James Dickson, we might find it easier to trace Elizabeth and her movements.

James, a baker by trade, and Martha married in Glasgow in 1856. They had a couple of children showing who I think may have died by 1861. This looks a likely entry for them in 1861:

James Dickson 23 baker b. Glasgow
Martha Dickson 23 wife b. Ireland
Robert Faulds 28 lodger b. Dysart, fifeshire
Alice Faulds 24 lodger b. England

Address: 11 Sister St (appropriate given we are looking for Elizabeth  ), Glasgow Calton/Bridgeton.

Monica

[MonicaL]

I am wondering if Elizabeth Docherty also married into the Dickson family?

This is 1901 in West Derby, Lancs.:

David Dickson 42 widower b. Paisley Scotland
Elizabeth Dickson 18
Mary Jane Dickson 14
David Fulton Dickson 13
Samuel Dickson 10
Annie Dickson 8
Joseph Richard Dickson 7
William Dickson 5
Emily Dickson 4
Thomas Dickson 6 Months
Martha Dickson 20 cousin New Brighton, Cheshire
Elizabeth Kinnear 64 b. Glasgow (relationship shows as G and then mother...given ages, likely mother?) b. Glasgow (original. Indexed as Glayon)

From this 1881 entry from earlier https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XQDH-LKZ?cc=1321821 David and a Richard showed as nephews to James and Martha Dickson.

Monica

[MonicaL]

Mmmm...except Elizabeth does not show as a Docherty but a Baxter. From 1861:

Richard Dickson 25 Cloth Lapper b. Paisley
Elizabeth Dickson 24 b. Pollockaws, Renfrewshire 
David Dickson 2 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQYN-NK3
Richard Dickson 1 Month https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F731-9ZG

Address: 1 Ralston Sq, Paisley Renfrewshire

Richard and Elizabeth had a few more children after this census:

Helen 1856 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQ42-4B1
Joseph 1863 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F73B-BP8...likely who shows with Elizabeth in 1891 with the Kinnear boys? Incorrectly showing as son in law?
Margaret 1865 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQ4Y-SQS

Marriage here https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XY3Y-HQD

And then just found them in 1871:

Richard Dickson 33 Spirit Merchant b.
Elizabeth Dickson 32 b. Pollokshaws
David Dickson 12
Richards Dickson 10
Joseph Dickson 8
Margaret Dickson 5
Elizabeth Dickson 3
Robert Dickson 1
Hellen Baxton 30 visitor dressmaker b. Nitshill, Renfrewshire

Address: 20 Abbey St, Paisley Abbey

I think Richard Dickson died in Abbey, Renfrewshire in 1872.

Monica

[GuitarGirl]

Wow! Thanks MonicaL for all this information - it's going to take me some time to read it all and sort them out. I had just about given up on the Kinnears - this is wonderful.

The information about James Kinnear being born at Pollockshaws came from an interview with an elderly relation, who also said that James Kinnear had a twin brother called William, and that their father William senior was a bank manager.

[MonicaL]

Sorry, there seems so much unravelling out in one go! As you work through, something to take care with is that they were quite loose in how they used relationships within the household for censuses which can make it confusing.

For example, in 1901, Elizabeth is showing as grandmother rather than mother to David Dickson. Similarly, on the 1881 census, James and William Kinnear (matching ages so likely twins from what you have been told?) show as grandchildren to Jane Docherty. I think Elizabeth's parents were a John Baxter and a Helen Docherty. Haven't been able to find anything on them yesterday.

I thought therefore, that Elizabeth Baxter may have been a niece to Jane Docherty and Jane and Helen Docherty might have been sisters...but that is as far as I have got with that so far...

Monica 

[GuitarGirl]

I still can't find my William Kinnear, cashier, father of James Kinnear b1875/6 Glasgow, although I now know that he will be not recorded in the 1881 Scottish census. Can anyone suggest another line of enquiry, or find him in the 1871 census?

It seems William Kinnear married Elizabeth Dickson formerly Baxter sometime between the death of her husband Richard Dickson in 1872 and presumably - but not necessarily - before the birth of her two children William and James Kinnear 1875/6. By 1881 Elizabeth is again a widow.

Scotland's People does not seem to have the marriage of Kinnear-Dickson, even using wildcards.
There is the marriage of a William Kinnear and Catherine Docherty at Abbey in 1858, but I cannot find a link with my William.

Any help or suggestions gratefully received.