Micheal Rock

[heywood]

It does look like very strong evidence that you have the right people.

I forgot to say that the two baptisms - James and Elizabeth were both McLise.
However, she was using the name Rock for John in 1871 which has its implications. With her not being married, the children may have been Michael's but were registered as McLise (variation).

There is a death for a Michael Rock 49 yrs in 1892 - Free BMD March quarter 1892 Liverpool  8b 97.

There is another MR of a similar age - married to a Bridget  but he is still alive in later censuses so it is not him. I couldn't see a burial for him. Someone may be able to find that.

It looks as though the Rock name for the children began mid 70s so perhaps they got together properly then but for whatever reason they weren't together in 1881. She may have declared herself a widow for reasons of propriety or it could have been assumed by the enumerator perhaps?

[rosie99]

Do you have a birth certificate for any of the children where the father is mentioned

[Bentham]

Rosie, I do not have any birth certificates, it is not actually my tree.
However on all the church baptismal records Micheal Rock is the father and also in the church wedding  registers children of Mary Ann, ie Margaret (wed 1903 to John Heyes) have Micheal Rock, carter (deceased) as father.

Strangely enough I have just noticed that Margaret and John Hayes both had Catholic baptism but married in an Anglican church.

Heywood, I was a little unsure of Elizabeth and James as neither appear in the 1881 census


Bentham

[Joney]

The marriage in a C of E church when both bride and groom were baptised as Catholics is not at all unusual.
I can quote you examples from Liverpool and Birkenhead spread over the 19th century. Only  Church of England clergy were allowed to perform a marriage and handle all the legal paperwork themselves so that the marriage was officially registered.
If you chose to be married in a Catholic church, you had to pay for the registrar to attend the church.  I think that plays a part in the decision-making.

Most of the couples I have come across then go on to get their children baptised Catholics !

Joney

[Bentham]

Thanks for that Joney. Very interesting.


Bentham

[heywood]

As it is not your tree, it would be a good idea for the person to purchase a birth certificate or two as has been mentioned already, especially perhaps the ancestor to see if there is a mention of a father.

You may never know whether Mary Ann just retained the Rock surname but it is worth looking around. The death certificate for a Michael Rock in 1892, if it is him, again may help with address and informant.

[Bentham]

Yes, I think that is a good idea. The man is a pensioner aquaintance of mine who basically knew little about his family. I said I would try and find somethings out, which I have done, but this week I want to wrap it up and print off what I have for him. I have a few more dead ends which I will try to sort out and let him decide if he wants to progress the tree.
Believe it or not Heywood but I have quite successfully traced aspects of my own tree and others but I really did stumble over Mary Ann, Micheal Rock, Richard Hayes and others in this tree.

Thanks again to all


Bentham

[heywood]

Well they are a difficult family to find. Hopefully now you have moved on a bit at least and then it is up to your friend where he would like to take it.

regards 

[Bentham]

Yes I think so. I am very pleased with all the advice received on this post and will include it in the overall findings.

Regards

Bentham