Barney Barnato's marriages- a mystery-plus montague richard leverson

[JaneyCanuck]

At least he wasn't born 15 years later (oops, I meant earlier) so he came out as Woolf Baden Powell or Woolf Mafeking -- but I must admit I've never heard of anyone else called Allies!

I only finished that blasted job a half hour ago and have another one due in 30 mins, but I'll see what I can do with all those other children on the wknd maybe.

We've hooked Wooly Harris to David Harris, but so far we haven't got his mother Kate Isaacs tied in with the Barnato Isaacs. That would be fun if it turned out that way.

[Marianne Isaacs]

 :)Hello . I have been mulling on all this and I suspec that they all knew each other probably at school and maybe as neighbours . I supect that perhaps that is as deep as it goes given that Isaacs is SUCH a common name . It wou;ld be great to know what happened to the other children . I do Know that Samual Isaacs had a son Woolf who was born in 1910 . Sam was an Omnibus driver. How would I go about finding out what happened to young Woolf  It interesting that both brothers named their sons Woolf , doesnt speak of a close family does it ?

[OrganicJohn]

Have just seen a performance of "Showboat" by Jerome Kern & Oscar Hammerstein at the Millenium Centre in Cardiff performed by Cape Town Opera which was really outstanding. I have previously seen them at the same venue perform Porgy and Bess and last year a new opera based on the life of Nelson Mandela both of which were very good. Looking through the programme notes for Showboat I noticed that the actor who was very good in the part  of  Captain Hawks, Graham Hopkins had starred in a South Africa series on the life of Barney Barnato. Presumably Barney Barnato is a legendary figure in South Africa. I am prompted to read up on his life story again as previously my only source of information was Diana Barnato Walker`s autobiography which I read a couple of years ago.

[KidCurry]

Well I think you might have it now.

In 1881, Reuben Isaacs 1872 Aldgate is with parents Woolf and Priscilla in St Bodolph Aldgate.

In 1891, Kate Isaacs 1883 London City is with parents Woolf and Priscilla in St Bodolph Aldgate.

She wasn't born yet in 1881, and he had flown by 1891, so they don't appear together in a census.

Just for you to eyeball them:

1881

Woolf Isaacs    31
Priscilla Isaacs    31
Reuben Isaacs    9
Philip Isaacs    7
Miriam Leah Isaacs    5
Rebecca Pearl Isaacs    4
Maria Isaacs    
Lousa Lucas    22

1891

Woolf Isaacs    40
Precila Isaacs    40
Philip Isaacs    17
Minnie L Isaacs    15
Rebecca P Isaacs    13
Maria Isaacs    11
Kate Isaacs    8
Samuel Isaacs    6
Sophia Isaacs    1 8/12

Anything else that confirms this is the right family for your Reuben?

There was such overlapping and repetition of names among these clans, it can't be certain that these were the Reuben and Kate in question, without some certificates -- like Kate's marriage to Samuel Harris, 1903, to confirm that her father was Woolf, and preferably birth certificates for both Kate and Reuben.

So your Reuben was the brother of Kate Isaacs, the mother of Wooly and wife of Samuel Harris, the son or nephew of David Harris. Making your Reuben the uncle of Wooly, and Wooly the first cousin of the recipient of the gift from David Haris.

Maybe.

And Reuben's father wasn't Samuel. Or else we've chased a few geese!

Oh, this should do it:
1881 - 10 Exchange Buildings
1891 - North Block
(Unless you were just getting the info from censuses like me!)

Well done Janey

Interesting thread this, seeing as you are all talking about my relatives! Hope you don't mind me corroborating and adding a bit of colour to it?

Colonel Sir David Harris is my Great Grand Uncle. Samuel Harris is my Grand Uncle. Samuel did indeed marry Katie Isaacs 1903. They're eldest boy was called Woolf, born 1907. It is likely that Woolf was named after his Great Grandfather Woolf who died in 1905.
I've never heard him being referred to as "Wooly", so I will ask other members of the family if they have heard of this before.
I'm of the opinion that Woolf left for Australia Abt 1927, although I have traced him living in 38 South Block, Artizans St, Houndsditch, London, 1933.

Reuben Isaacs, would indeed be Woolf's uncle.

The "Barratt" that is mentioned in an earlier post, is Barnett Harris, my Grand Uncle, who was born in Kimberely, South Africa, 1874, the son of Henry Harris and Fanny Fonseca, my Great Grandparents.
Barnett married Alice Phillips and they had one child, a daughter called Phoebe, b1898. She was more than likely named after her Great Grandmother, Phoebe Romaine, who was married to Woolf Harris 1826-1905 and not to be confused with the one you refer to as "Wooly" !!!

I believe the parents of Katie Isaacs 1883-1928 are Woolf Isaacs and Priscilla Lyons.

Regards






 

[Ferfinds]

Well I think you might have it now.

In 1881, Reuben Isaacs 1872 Aldgate is with parents Woolf and Priscilla in St Bodolph Aldgate.

In 1891, Kate Isaacs 1883 London City is with parents Woolf and Priscilla in St Bodolph Aldgate.

She wasn't born yet in 1881, and he had flown by 1891, so they don't appear together in a census.

Just for you to eyeball them:

1881

Woolf Isaacs    31
Priscilla Isaacs    31
Reuben Isaacs    9
Philip Isaacs    7
Miriam Leah Isaacs    5
Rebecca Pearl Isaacs    4
Maria Isaacs    
Lousa Lucas    22

1891

Woolf Isaacs    40
Precila Isaacs    40
Philip Isaacs    17
Minnie L Isaacs    15
Rebecca P Isaacs    13
Maria Isaacs    11
Kate Isaacs    8
Samuel Isaacs    6
Sophia Isaacs    1 8/12

Anything else that confirms this is the right family for your Reuben?

There was such overlapping and repetition of names among these clans, it can't be certain that these were the Reuben and Kate in question, without some certificates -- like Kate's marriage to Samuel Harris, 1903, to confirm that her father was Woolf, and preferably birth certificates for both Kate and Reuben.

So your Reuben was the brother of Kate Isaacs, the mother of Wooly and wife of Samuel Harris, the son or nephew of David Harris. Making your Reuben the uncle of Wooly, and Wooly the first cousin of the recipient of the gift from David Haris.

Maybe.

And Reuben's father wasn't Samuel. Or else we've chased a few geese!

Oh, this should do it:
1881 - 10 Exchange Buildings
1891 - North Block
(Unless you were just getting the info from censuses like me!)

Samuel Harris 1878-1946 was the nephew of David Harris 1852-1942. David's brother Henry Harris 1850-1939 was the father of Samuel.
Henry and David's father was Woolf Harris 1827-1905
The above is from various My Heritage trees, but I believe it is correct.

As for proof Kate Isaacs father was Woolf Isaacs, how about this from the Jewish Chronicle:

ISAACS. —On the 23rd of December, after a long illness, WOOLF, the dearly beloved husband of PRISCILLA ISAACS, NO. 1, North Block Houndsditch. Deeply lamented by his sorrowing wife and children, also by his daughter, Mrs. S. Harris. Shiva at the above address. May his dear soul rest in peace. African and Australian papers please copy.
The Jewish Chronicle - Dec 29 1905

Jennifer Crockett

[KidCurry]

Samuel Harris my Grand Uncle died in 1943, not 1946. Henry Harris my Great Grandfather died in 1906 not in 1939.
Information taken from my own family tree.

[Ferfinds]

Samuel Harris my Grand Uncle died in 1943, not 1946. Henry Harris my Great Grandfather died in 1906 not in 1939.
Information taken from my own family tree.

I am very sorry.

The wrong death date for Samuel was a typo on my part. The wrong death date of Henry Harris  - it is my fault for failing to see that the My Heritage member had "before 1940" for some reason and that had translated to 1939.

I am not generally in favour of My Heritage trees, and I am not a paid subscriber, but I must admit there are some good original sources available to subscribers. They have the Jewish Chronicle archives which are very pricey to have access to through the newspaper itself.

Jennifer

[JaneyCanuck]

I'm glad to see I did work it all out properly and hope that helped!

(Of course I recommended that certificates be obtained out of the proper excess of caution, but of course yes, material like published birth/marriage/death notices can substitute, although they might not always be reliable when it comes to things like brides' and grooms' fathers' names. But then neither are certificates. )

[KidCurry]

Jennifer

No worries. Likewise, I am not in favour of public trees, there's no substitute for hours of research and paying out for documentation. One of the reasons why I keep my tree private!

Did you copy that article from the Jewish Chronicle "Verbatim?"

Kid Curry