William Percy BERRY

[Greaves]

Some very interesting inputs overnight.

The names of Christopher John and William Percy BELLINGER are very tempting. Two brothers being born at the right times in the right area. Coincidence?

We know that William Percy Berry from his Royal Navy records was born 24 Sep 1898, so could easily have been registered in Q4 1898. But why under another name?

To add to the coincidences, Christopher John BELLINGER was living at 61 Winstanley Road according to the 1925 electoral register, whilst Harriet Berry and her son Joseph, my Grandfather, were living a few doors down at 53 Winstanley Road.

The military record of Christopher Thomas Berry is also very interesting, given that he was born in Cirencester c1872 and his mother is Emily Berry. Christopher John Berry Snr was also born in Cirencester c1871. Moreover, there are two weddings that take place in Worlesdon in 1894. The first is of Herbert Edward Berry to Annie Hill, the second of Christopher John Berry Snr to Harriet Martha Barnes. In both cases, the father of the groom is listed as James Berry. And in both cases, Emily Sarah Berry is a witness.

We know from the 1891 census that James Berry was married to Jane Unknown and living in Stoke, Worlesdon with their 3 sons: Alfred (b Gloucestershire c1868), John (b Gloucestershire c1871) and George (b Surrey c1882).

The assumption is that John (b Gloucestershire c1871) is in fact Christopher John Berry Snr. I have never known who Herbert Edward Berry or Emily Sarah Berry were. I'm now thinking that we have two families who moved up to Surrey from Gloucestershire sometime between 1872 and 1882: James/Jane Berry and ?/Emily Berry.

I really need help to sort this out.

[avm228]

We know that William Percy Berry from his Royal Navy records was born 24 Sep 1898, so could easily have been registered in Q4 1898. But why under another name?

Regarding the name, as I suggested before it is possible the family was using an alias for some reason - one which Christopher took into later life and Percy did not.  Usually this occurred because people did not want to be found by, in no particular order, (a) the police/authorities, (b) creditors, (c) abandoned spouses, (d) other unwelcome visitors.

Do you know why Christopher Berry snr went to prison, where you found him in 1911?

There is evidence of a criminal record for Christopher John Bellinger b 1895 which you can access on FindMyPast.  Unfortunately re Old Bailey records their online archive only goes up to 1913, two years before his appearance there.

[Greaves]

Christopher Berry Snr was given five months with hard labour for assaulting a policeman whilst drunk. According to the press report he had fallen into "bad company and bad ways", which presumably means he had resorted to drink. In 1911, he is in Wandsworth Prison, his wife Harriet in the workhouse with his son Joseph. We are not certain of the whereabouts of the elder two sons, who are probably also in institutions, or indeed the daughter Margaret Ellen Florence born July 1905.

[Greaves]

I'm obviously not having a good day as I can't find the criminal record for Christopher John Bellinger on FindMyPast. Any tips?

[avm228]

These Berrys are very difficult.  I see that James in Worplesdon unhelpfully gives a birthplace of NK (not known) in 1891.

The large gap in the ages of the three sons of James with him in 1891 leaves room for (a) other sons elsewhere in 1891, and/or (b) this being a "blended" family, with Jane as a second (or later) wife and perhaps mother of young George but not the older ones.

If the elder sons had a mother Emily and she was still alive in 1894 to witness marriages & be cited as NOK on "Christopher Thomas"' military records then perhaps James was bigamously married to Jane or not married and living as though man and wife.

[avm228]

I'm obviously not having a good day as I can't find the criminal record for Christopher John Bellinger on FindMyPast. Any tips?

Sorry - having checked again there is no middle name.  Christopher Bellinger b 1896 should bring up the record top of the list - "Prison records" set.  He is 19 in early 1915 so consistent with a birth 1895-6.

There is a prior conviction listed which is consistent with the finding of a Christopher John Bellinger aged 15 in an institution in 1911, as per the free index info from Familysearch.

[Greaves]

I have now found his record - a charming individual!

Let's hope he isn't a relative, though knowing this side of the family he probably is a relative.

[avm228]

I have now found his record - a charming individual!

Yes I think the less said about him the better!

Trying to get some traction on the Berrys pre 1891.  Is James Berry's occupation given on the two Worplesdon marriages in 1894?  The "Cirencester" thing makes me wonder about an Army link?

[Greaves]

I agree about the gap, though not sure about Jane being a second wife. After all she was born in Gloucestershire, as were the two eldest sons Alfred and John.

Moreover, if Emily was also a wife/co-habitee/whatever would she have been present at the weddings rather than Jane, who was presumably still alive in 1894, having been alive in 1891.

And that's another thing, I can find no records of James and Jane's births, wedding or deaths.

There is another thread somewhere trying to pierce together the Berry history on this site about a month ago, which was more on James and Jane, rather than their grandchildren.

Altogether this family is a nightmare to trace, with very few records left behind, and possibly shifting names. For instance who is Herbert Edward? Is he another brother? Is Emily Sarah who attends the wedding of Christopher John Snr and Harriet the same Emily who gave birth to Christopher Thomas?