Did they beam in from outer space?

[Arranroots]

Depends whether you want to prove anything or just guess!

Have you tried to trace the marriage witness BARNES?

I've got a few things to sort but hope to have another go later ...

Everyone else is very quiet - HELP YOU LOT!!

 

[sarenid]

Hi
Over the weekend I have been looking up Henry G Barnes and George Jones.  I can find no Barnes in Senghenydd but there is a Henry G Barnes who lived at 50 High street Pontypridd with his wife Lydia.  He was a railway signalman in 1891 and 1901.  He is around the same age as Edward Baverstock but I can find no obvious link.  I have had no luck tracing Edward Baverstock on 1891 census so I can't see if there is any link there. 

I also looked into a Henry G Barnes from Kinson Dorset but apart from age and birth county again I can find no obvious connection.

I also found a George Jones who was a miner and lived at 28 Union Street Abersychan when I looked a the map this seems very close to George W Matthews who lived at 80 High Street Abersychan.  However, when I traced George Jones's family through to 1901 he is living in Cardiff and is now a grocer.  So again a link but a very faint one.

I have also tried to trace back a John Hall although it looks more like Hale on the 1901 census for the Matthews and Baverstocks.  He is down as a visitor which makes me wonder whether there is some connection.  But without any family, rather like the witnesses I am finding it difficult to make further connections backwards.

Anyway thought I would update you and thanks for your help. Sara

[sarenid]

I just thought I would update you on further information I have collected.  I sent off for the marriage certificate of George William Matthews.  He married Mary Thomas on 5th August 1871.  The fathers of the couple are Thomas Thomas farmer and Henry Matthews farmer.  In 1871 living apparently next to each other in mamhilad are the Thomas and Matthews families.  Thomas Thomas farming 101 acres and Henry Matthews 40 or so acres

Thomas Thomas H Farmer b: 1814 Llantrissent Glamorganshire
Rachel Thomas W b: 1817 Llantrissent Glamorganshire
Ann Evans  married  Daughter b: 1843 Llantrissent Glamorganshire
Mary Thomas  b:1849 Llantrissent Glamorganshire
William Thomas  b: 1850 Llantrissent Glamorganshire
Rachel Thomas b:  1857 Mamhilad Monmouthshire
Barbara Thomas b: 1859 Mamhilad Monmouthshire.
+ 2 Evans grandsons
George Matthews is living presumably next door or next farm with his father Henry and mother Sarah as previously listed.

I have found a census of 1851 in Lantrissant glamorgan which lists Thomas Thomas a farmer with his wife Rachel and children Ann Margaret Mary and William.  The ages tally within a year. although Thomas's seems to be out by rather more.  His year is 1820 rather than 1814.

I can't find a census for 1861 but I presume by that time they were living in Mamhilad and so are part of the missing 1861 census for that area.

One of the witnesses to the marriage is Ann Evans which would fit with her being Mary Thomas's elder sister.  They were married at the Wesleyan Methodist Chapel in, I think, Castle Street though the s is not very clear.  According to the directory there was a Wesleyan Methodist Chapel in Castle Street Abergavenny.  They are put down as both living in Llanellen rather than Mamhilad.  The other witness is a Thiza (what it looks like) Powell but on a  first trawl though the censuses for 1871 I can't find any likely candidates.

In the 1901 census Mary Matthews puts her place of birth as Llantrisant Glamorgan so this would provide a tenuous link with Mary Thomas.  In the censuses of 1881 she lists her birth as monmouthshire but in 1891 she does list her birthplace as glamorgan.

I did do a search in respect of John Hall and found a family based in Whitchurch Glamorgan which looked very possibly but again no obviousl link to the family he was visiting in 1901.  Hope you don't mind me bouncing facts off you. Regards Sarenid

I can find no record of the baptism of Edith Ann in the records but it is possibly she was baptised in the same chapel in Castle Street which was round the corner from where the Matthews's were living at the time of her birth.  Would records for this chapel be available anywhere?

[sarenid]

Hi Arranroots

Thought I might update you.  I recently searched the 1911 census for a William Matthews born 1851 monmouthshire and low and behold one came up for that date born Goytrey.  He was a widower working as a colliery labourer above ground.  The 1901 address in Senghenydd by 1911 was occupied by Edith and Edward Baverstock with their children.  It is the first census entry since 1851 with a William Matthews being born 1851 in Goytrey.

I also recently did a search on the monmouthshire site.  In the buriel index for Goytrey there is a:

Matthews, Matilda, 1955, Jul, 30, Myrtle Cott Goytre,
Matthews, Sarah   , 1919, Jan, 12, Myrtle Cottage Goytrey,
Matthews, Wm George, 1920, Sep, 29, Glan Ely Hos Pentwyn Farm,

Matilda and Sarah would be william matthews's sister and mother.  I wondered whether the William George was Edith Matthews father (she died 1913) so his only relatives by that time would be his siblings but thus far I have been unable to trace a death index entry for either William Matthews or any combination thereof.  However, I have to say I think given everything its is more likely than not George William Matthews is my gg grandfather.  Am I grasping at straws?

thanks for the help Sarenid

[Arranroots]

It does look like a good match.

Did you establish who William's father is (sorry a bit tired and not reading straight!)  Just thinking that often sons with the same name as their fathers were known by their middle names - hence George?

[sarenid]

William father was Henry and I have been unable to establish who Henry's parents are as they don't come up on IGI.  However, his mother's father was william wicks (weeks) so I assumed the William came from her.  Sarah's mother was a widow living with them in 1851.  I am not sure when William died possibly just before the census as there are 3 william Wicks deaths registered in Abergavenny jan mar 1851. 

Henry Matthews was born in Llanbaddock according to the various censuses and Sarah Wicks was born Panteg.  I have found information on her family on IGI.  I do not know therefore where the George comes from?
regards sarenid

[Ambrose53]

Hi Sara,
I am looking for the a John Matthews b.1825 Mamhilad and his wife Ann b. 1835 Trevethin. I am wondering if they are members of your Matthews family. I can't find John and Ann until the 1871 Census when they are running the Bridgend Inn in Cwmffrwdoer. There is no sign in the previous censuses. The family rumour is that John's Mother may have been thrown off the farm by her brothers when John's Father died. You know how these stories become elaborated. I'd be grateful if you could give some pointers to the Matthews family in Mamhilad so that I can trace them back. They had William in abt 1858 and Thomas in abt 1860.
Regards Allen

[sarenid]

Hi Allan

I have had a look for your Matthews and although I do not think they are the same family as mine, I might have found some baptisms re John and the marriage of John's parents.  In the parish records of Mamhilad are:
Marriage - Thomas Matthews of Mamhilad & Ann Davies of Mamhilad 16 March 1820; both signed with a mark witnesses; John Hughes & ? Davies (x)

Baptisms:
Jane Daughter of Thomas & Annie Mathews Labourer 13 December 1820
William son of Thomas & Anne Mathews, labourer, 17 March 1822
Thomas son of Thomas & Anne Mathews, labourer 11 September 1823
John son of Thomas & Ann Matthews, labourer 23 January 1825

In 1841 there is a census entry for a John Matthews born 1826 within the household of maltster Thomas & Racheal Davies in Llanvrechva, Pontypool - might  be worth a further look as Thomas Davies would be around the right age to be an uncle perhaps.

My Matthews family did not move to Mamhilad from what I can determine until later (1850/60) - Henry Matthews being born and baptised in Usk illigitimate son of Elizabeth Matthews and John Jenkins (this parentage is born out by his marriage certificate) and Sarah Wicks being born and baptised in Panteg.
Sorry not to have been able to help further.
Regards
Sarenid

[Ambrose53]

Hi Sarenid,
Thank you for all of that. The link to Publicans and Maltsters is a strong one and the there is John Matthews with Mark Williams and Anne(Matthews), his sister, in the Masons Arms Caerleon in 1841. Looks like a trip to the Parish Register. Until then I will follow all the tracks until something clicks.
Best Regards

Allen