Author Topic: John Overall and Frances Marriage - Bermondsey Area?  (Read 5408 times)

Offline Tim Brayshaw

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John Overall and Frances Marriage - Bermondsey Area?
« on: Friday 17 October 14 14:09 BST (UK) »
It started with this record...

Name:   John William Overall
Record Type:   Baptism
Baptism Date:   12 Jul 1818
Father's Name:   John Overall
Mother's name:   Frances Overall
Parish or Poor Law Union:   Bermondsey St Mary Magdalene
Borough:   Southwark
Register Type:   Parish Registers

This gentleman went on to marry, as far as i can tell, a Sarah Butcher in 1840; but i am trying to find his parent's marriage.

Can anyone help?
Sheffield/Yeadon/Guiseley - Brayshaw
Baslow - Wild(e)
London - Overall
Folkestone - Butcher
Little Steeping / Willoughby - Briggs and Ancient
Candlesby - Hewison and Rutter
Badsworth/Upton/South Kirkby - Thorp(e)
East Markham - Wilmot(t)
Middleton Tyas/South Cowton - Martin
Newton Upon Ouse - Goodbarn
Darley Dale - Hatfield
Wentworth/Tankersley - Allott and Trippett
Chedworth - Wilson and Tuffley

Online CaroleW

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Re: John Overall and Frances Marriage - Bermondsey Area?
« Reply #1 on: Friday 17 October 14 14:24 BST (UK) »
Other baptism to same couple on same date

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J398-G61

Also - seems strange to have 2 John's so I suspect the 1818 John perhaps died

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NYJZ-THY

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NLYC-NZ4
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Re: John Overall and Frances Marriage - Bermondsey Area?
« Reply #2 on: Friday 17 October 14 14:25 BST (UK) »
Have you already discounted the marriage in 1814 on Family Search?
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)

Offline Tim Brayshaw

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Re: John Overall and Frances Marriage - Bermondsey Area?
« Reply #3 on: Friday 17 October 14 14:52 BST (UK) »
Have you already discounted the marriage in 1814 on Family Search?

I saw the Frances Hammenden one, but as i saw that i actually noticed the thing you have previously posted about. (The double John's)

My John lives in Bermondsey for three census records, and then passes away in Hackney by the looks of it in 1887. He consistently mentions his birth date as 1818 and in London, Middlesex.

However, he never mentions his middle name of William, so i am starting to doubt this now.
Sheffield/Yeadon/Guiseley - Brayshaw
Baslow - Wild(e)
London - Overall
Folkestone - Butcher
Little Steeping / Willoughby - Briggs and Ancient
Candlesby - Hewison and Rutter
Badsworth/Upton/South Kirkby - Thorp(e)
East Markham - Wilmot(t)
Middleton Tyas/South Cowton - Martin
Newton Upon Ouse - Goodbarn
Darley Dale - Hatfield
Wentworth/Tankersley - Allott and Trippett
Chedworth - Wilson and Tuffley


Offline Tim Brayshaw

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Re: John Overall and Frances Marriage - Bermondsey Area?
« Reply #4 on: Friday 17 October 14 15:01 BST (UK) »
I have just spotted something rather odd.

I have John Overall's marriage certificate, but never could see what the father's name was on there because it was so faint and completely unreadable.

18th June 1840 in St Botolph John Overall is marked as 'Of Age' and Sarah Butcher is marked as 'Of Age' on my certificate. John Overall is down as a Hosier.

However, i have just done a search and found the digital scan of the records and Sarah Butcher is 'Minor' on it...and you can see John Overall's father as William Overall and Sarah's as Henry Butcher.

I can not read their father's occupations.

I have also not found them on the 1841 or 1851 census but have them by the looks of it in 1861. Sarah Butcher was born 1821/1822 in Folkestone. I'm rather confused now.
Sheffield/Yeadon/Guiseley - Brayshaw
Baslow - Wild(e)
London - Overall
Folkestone - Butcher
Little Steeping / Willoughby - Briggs and Ancient
Candlesby - Hewison and Rutter
Badsworth/Upton/South Kirkby - Thorp(e)
East Markham - Wilmot(t)
Middleton Tyas/South Cowton - Martin
Newton Upon Ouse - Goodbarn
Darley Dale - Hatfield
Wentworth/Tankersley - Allott and Trippett
Chedworth - Wilson and Tuffley

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Re: John Overall and Frances Marriage - Bermondsey Area?
« Reply #5 on: Friday 17 October 14 15:38 BST (UK) »
I see what you mean about the marriage cert - doesn't help that the transcription is Averall
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Offline Tim Brayshaw

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Re: John Overall and Frances Marriage - Bermondsey Area?
« Reply #6 on: Friday 17 October 14 15:41 BST (UK) »
I see what you mean about the marriage cert - doesn't help that the transcription is Averall

It has sent me into a little confusion where earlier i was almost certain of my findings. I think the first stage is to try and find the family on the 1841 and 1851 census for further clues. 1861 is the first time i can see them even though the marriage is in 1840.

Possibly some clues towards why the parish register says Minor and the RO has Of Age on there.
Sheffield/Yeadon/Guiseley - Brayshaw
Baslow - Wild(e)
London - Overall
Folkestone - Butcher
Little Steeping / Willoughby - Briggs and Ancient
Candlesby - Hewison and Rutter
Badsworth/Upton/South Kirkby - Thorp(e)
East Markham - Wilmot(t)
Middleton Tyas/South Cowton - Martin
Newton Upon Ouse - Goodbarn
Darley Dale - Hatfield
Wentworth/Tankersley - Allott and Trippett
Chedworth - Wilson and Tuffley

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Re: John Overall and Frances Marriage - Bermondsey Area?
« Reply #7 on: Friday 17 October 14 15:56 BST (UK) »
I have just been looking at Overall baptisms and there appears to be 2 families headed by John & Sarah Overall who were baptising children in Bermondsey.

I was just transcribing them assuming they were yours when I noticed that 2 of the actual birthdates were only 4mths apart in 1848.

A John & Sarah Overall baptised the following children all on the same date - 25.7.1860 at Bermondsey St Mary Magdalene.  That John was a matmaker and address was Brunswick Court

Sarah b 22.4.1848
Fanny b 1.12.1851
Louisa b 20.7.1853

On 13.7.1856 a John & Sarah Overall baptised 2 children at Christ Church Bermondsey.  Address 25 Parish St Horsleydown and occ Fellowship porter

Ann Elizabeth b 18.6.1850
William b 18.8.1848
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Offline Barbara F

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Re: John Overall and Frances Marriage - Bermondsey Area?
« Reply #8 on: Friday 17 October 14 15:59 BST (UK) »
I have found John and Sarah in 1851.  If you are using Ancestry they are transcribed as Sonall!

They are in St John Horsleydown and have 3 children.

Ref is HO 107 1559  f 500.

Barbara
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