Author Topic: assumed arms  (Read 18138 times)

Offline Peggysus

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assumed arms
« on: Sunday 09 September 12 00:39 BST (UK) »
Is anybody actually trying to create a coat of arms rather than searching for one that already exists? I know no-one in my family had arms and am in the process of creating my own coat of arms with symbols from my mother's and father's family.
Has anyone any experience in this?
There are so many conflicting opinions -the only thing I can work out is that you shouldn't put metal on metal or colour on colour but even then some don't adhere to this. Otherwise it seems to be a minefield!
It reminds me of the "tartan laws" where you can't wear any tartan you want  even though you can buy any tartan from shops without proving that you have the name?
Warmly & Sincerely

Offline GrahamSimons

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Re: assumed arms
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 09 September 12 08:55 BST (UK) »
I see from your profile you are not resident in the UK, so I don't know what the regulations are there.In England and Wales, see http://www.college-of-arms.gov.uk/ and in Scotland http://www.lyon-court.com/lordlyon/CCC_FirstPage.jsp - in the Scottish case it's actually illegal to claim arms without a grant from the Lord Lyon King of Arms.
Simons Barrett Jaffray Waugh Langdale Heugh Meade Garnsey Evans Vazie Mountcure Glascodine Parish Peard Smart Dobbie Sinclair....
in Stirlingshire, Roxburghshire; Bucks; Devon; Somerset; Northumberland; Carmarthenshire; Glamorgan

Offline behindthefrogs

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Re: assumed arms
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 09 September 12 10:51 BST (UK) »
It seems a pity, even presumptuous, to me for anyone to create their own coat of arms.  In most cases coats of arms either contain an embedded history going back many generations or a recognition of specific achievements.  When the college of arms or a similar body is involved they not only look for appropriate history but also check that there is no clash with other existing coats of arms. 

In particular many of the elements of a coat of arms have specific meanings and should be avoided where they are inappropriate or correctly used. One simple example is the helm (helmet) that shows the rank of the person involved.  The construction of a shield is very complex where the positioning etc of various elements has very specific meanings.

It is unfair to later generations to do this incorrectly and akin to making up a tree for your early ancestors.  It is difficult enough to interpret coats of arms without having to deal with imposters.  I would encourage you if you proceed with this to disobey rules like the relationship of metals and colours so that it is obvious to experts that the coat of arms is not genuine.
Living in Berkshire from Northampton & Milton Keynes
DETAILS OF MY NAMES ARE IN SURNAME INTERESTS, LINK AT FOOT OF PAGE
Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Coupland, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley.
Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse, Stevens, Batchelor
Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline GR2

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Re: assumed arms
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 09 September 12 11:45 BST (UK) »
If you were entitled to arms, you would know that already as you would have inherited the right. You can apply for arms from the proper authority in which you live. Making them up is not really a good idea.

I am directly descended from many people who did have arms (I can trace my ancestry to a daughter of Robert Bruce, king of Scots), but I personally have no right whatsoever to any arms.


Offline Skoosh

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Re: assumed arms
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 09 September 12 15:25 BST (UK) »
Brenda,  you can wear any tartan you like, you can even design your own.

Skoosh.

Offline Peggysus

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Re: assumed arms
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 09 September 12 23:07 BST (UK) »
Thank you all  for taking the time to leave your comments - not all of which I'm in agreement with :)
Lots of assumed arms are being granted, and I don't really see anything presumptuous in wanting to mark my family on the heraldry map. I am going into this quite seriously (but hoping it will be a pleasurable experience ......) and  from what I see, I think everyone is entitled to bear arms - in some cases, differenced where  family arms already exist, but, as you say, usually subject to registration of some kind.
I am planning on registering my coat of arms with the Conseil Héraldique in France, where I live and where anyone can bear arms. One person can even register more than one coat of arms as circumstances and preferences evolve.
There is no obligation to use any existing family arms either as a coat of arms is personal to the individual so no-one in the future would be obliged to base themselves on my arms.
Heraldry rules do seem to be evolving too. 
Once I get the design finalised, I will let the Conseil Héraldique guide me in any final modifications if need be. And of course I will be very careful not to copy anyone else's arms - I can well understand that copying is not allowed.
Thanks, Skoosh,  for the comments about the tartan - I got in touch a while ago with the Clan involved for my Mum's tartan & I was encouraged to wear it with pride!
Warmly & Sincerely

Offline LizzieW

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Re: assumed arms
« Reply #6 on: Monday 10 September 12 00:46 BST (UK) »
I heard that Scottish clan tartans are inventions of the 19th Century weaving industry.  There were obviously tartans for different parts of Scotland and Ireland over the centuries, but many modern tartans were simply impossible to make earlier than the 1880s. Tartans older than that must have been made from natural dyes and would have been of muted tones of green, brown etc - no bright reds or yellows like you see today - and probably very similar to each other.

I do think though that the Tartan manufacturers saw a marketing opportunity when Americans with a Scottish background came over looking for their ancestors and produced many different tartans supposedly associated with many old Scottish names.

Lizzie

Offline Skoosh

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Re: assumed arms
« Reply #7 on: Monday 10 September 12 10:35 BST (UK) »
One is reminded of the American lady in the Edinburgh tartan shop enquiring after a (plaid) tartan tie for her husband and adding that he was a direct descendant of Greyfriars Bobby!

Skoosh.

Offline Ruskie

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Re: assumed arms
« Reply #8 on: Monday 10 September 12 11:12 BST (UK) »
I think that Kate Middleton's family 'created' a coat of arms when she married Prince William - not sure if they asked if they could or were told that they should.  ;)

I was surprised when I heard that - I didn't realise you could' invent', a coat of arms.  :-\