Author Topic: Why did the vicar get paid?  (Read 2478 times)

Offline Ayashi

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Why did the vicar get paid?
« on: Wednesday 08 January 14 21:08 GMT (UK) »
Someone found me a curious marriage just now that reads as follows:-

John [Lewis?] native of the town of Cardigan, esquire, & Mary Ann Thomas of Panton[??] widow were married in the parish church of Abernant by the Rector of Kilshedin being licenced, paid the wedding [??es] to the vicar of Mydrim five shillings.

If neither of them were from Mydrim and they got married in Abernant, why was the vicar of Mydrim paid? (If I could work out exactly what the word after wedding says, that'd probably help...)

Thanks :D

Offline groom

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Re: Why did the vicar get paid?
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 08 January 14 21:37 GMT (UK) »
Quote
wedding [??es]

Could it be dues?
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Offline Ayashi

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Re: Why did the vicar get paid?
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 08 January 14 21:39 GMT (UK) »
More than likely that's what it's meant to say, yeah... Googling it hasn't helped though  :-\

Offline jbml

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Re: Why did the vicar get paid?
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 25 January 14 15:32 GMT (UK) »
It probably says fees, rather than dues.

The fees for "occasional offices" (such as the celebration of Holy Matrimony) were an important part of the Vicar's income.

If the couple marry somewhere else instead, then the vicar of that place might be accused of "poaching" a fellow clergy-man's fees. Essentially, therefore, it boils down to a question of professional ethics among clergyman - you don't shear the sheep of another parson's flock without his consent, and that consent will only generally be forthcoming if he gets paid his fee regardless.

In your case, I think we must assume an established custom that the vicar of Midrim had a right to fees for Panton marriages - perhaps because the parish of Panton had been carved out of the parish of Midrim (or had at one time been a peculiar of Midrim or some such arrangement) and that the fees were reserved to him when it was created in order to protect his income. I am not familiar with the history of these parishes, so cannot assist further on this point.

That having been said, the issue was a controversial one and by the end of the 18th century the demand for a fee by the bride's parish priest when he did not celebrate the marriage had become all but unsustainable. This is what the 6th edition of Burn's Ecclesiastical Law (1797) has to say on the matter (volume 2, pages 481 - 2):



Mr Johnson says, it was an ancient custom, that marriage should be performed in no other church but that to which the woman belonged as a parishioner; and therefore to this day, the ecclesiastical law allows a fee due to the curate of that church, whether she be married there or not. And this fee was expressly reserved for him by the words of the licence, according to the old form, which is not yet disused in all dioceses. But it is said, that judgment hath been otherwise given in the temporal courts. Johns. 188, 189.

So in the case of Thompson and Davenport, M. 13 W. The plaintiff libelled against the defendant, setting forth a custom in the parish of Ellington in Derbyshire, that of every woman who is a parishioner, and dwelleth there, and marriage with a licence, the husband at the time of the marriage, or soon after, shall pay to the vicar 5s as an accustomed fee; and so brought his case within that custom; the defendant suggested for a prohibition, that all customs are triable at common law, and that the plaintiff had libelled against him, setting forth the customs as aforesaid. And a prohibition was granted. Lutw. 1059.

And in a late case, upon an appeal to the arches, Sir George Lee not only declared against the custom as an unreasonable custom, but gave costs against the clergyman with some warmth.

And Sir William Blackstone says, of common right no fee is due to the minister for performing such like branches of his duty, and it can only be supposed by special custom; but no custom can support the demand of a fee without performing them at all. 3 Black 90



There is, of course, a lot of technical legal stuff in that passage; but even without any detailed of canon law and ecclesiastical jurisdiction, it should be fairly obvious that the gist of the message is "these fees used to be payable, and some people still seem to think they are - but the courts are pretty adamant that they are not". Sir George Lee was Dean of the Arches; and the Court of Arches is the appeal court of the Province of Canterbury and was, therefore, at the time in question the highest ecclesiastical court in the land. If even the Dean of the Arches was giving judgment against the payment of such fees, then we may take it that they were, by 1797, essentially unenforceable.

You do not say what date this was - but i am assuming it is probably mid-18th century. Am I right?
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Offline Rena

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Re: Why did the vicar get paid?
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 25 January 14 16:05 GMT (UK) »
This reminds me of the shock I received when my then fiancee and I visited the vicar in my local village church to discuss marriage.  The costs reflected the dues/fees we had to pay which were: 
(1)  fees for the church in the groom's parish; 
(2) plus fees for my local village church where we hoped to hold the wedding;
(3) plus fees for the church in a nearby village having to be paid because although my postal address was the nearest village, the house was built within the boundary of another parish.
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Offline Ayashi

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Re: Why did the vicar get paid?
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 25 January 14 22:41 GMT (UK) »
Thanks jbml, that's interesting reading :) I honestly can't remember the date, I was looking for a different marriage and came across that one. I think we are talking mid to late 1700s though.

That's obscene, Rena  :o