Author Topic: John or James Ross?  (Read 8978 times)

Offline katman

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John or James Ross?
« on: Thursday 17 May 12 05:50 BST (UK) »
James Ross was drowned in October 1860, when his ship was wrecked near Lossiemouth in a gale.
 His death registration (Enzie Parish) omitted his parentage, his wife's name (Ann Small) and his age, so,  I assumed his parents to be John Ross and Jean McIntosh.   The Duffus Opr's show they had a son, James Ross born in 1821, and the naming pattern of his children include a John and Jean. To add strength to the naming pattern theory, two other kids were named after the parents of Ann Small, James's wife.

 There was talk that James's father and an uncle were also drowned the same day!  A search of libraries and newspapers eventually unearthed an article from the Banffshire Journal which indicated that James's father was presumed drowned when his sloop the Ann Garrow broke up near Troup Head (Banffshire) during that same gale. It gives the father's name as JAMES, but I have failed to find any official document that would confirm this. No death cert, nothing.
 As everything I have points to James father being JOHN Ross, my research seems to have come to a stop.

Any suggestions, or links to sources would be appreciated. 

Jim

Offline MonicaL

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Re: John or James Ross?
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 17 May 12 12:41 BST (UK) »
Is this wife Ann with children in 1861 (they match what is showing on IGI for children's births to a James Ross and Ann Small):

Ann Ross 35 b. Duffus
Betsy Ross 12 b. Duffus
Ann Ross 10 b. Duffus
Peter Ross 6 b. Drainie
Susan Ross 3 b. Drainie
Maria Ross 1 b. Drainie
George Thompson 26 boarder
Hugh Mckay 19 boarder
Peter Nicolson 35 boarder

Address: Simmerson Cottage, Drainie Moray

The son John born late 1853 in Duffus is not showing on the above entry is he? Maybe an early death?

What were the names of Ann Small's parents?

Do you have this 1861 census entry already? If you agree this is the family after James' accident the year before....then how about this entry for 1851:

John Ross   51, fisherman b. Duffus
Ann Ross 25, step daughter on transcript...likely daughter in law?, b. Duffus
Jean Ross 5 grandchild b. Duffus
Betsy Ross 2 grandchild b. Duffus
Ann Ross 1 grandchild b. Duffus

Address: Burghead, Duffus

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline MonicaL

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Re: John or James Ross?
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 17 May 12 12:47 BST (UK) »
Freecen show Ann Ross' relationship as 'Stpdau'. Maybe a check of the original image may help. Maybe writing is hard to read or relationship down in error?

Have you followed Ann Small back to her family and 1841 census...to confirm her mother did not marry a John Ross!

Regarding James's father, I assume this is the incident here http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/en/site/254957/details/ann+garrow+troup+head+north+sea/

Monica    
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Offline katman

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Re: John or James Ross?
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 17 May 12 14:07 BST (UK) »
Hi Monical.
 Ann Small's parents, Peter Small and Betsy/Elizabeth Shaw (Two of Ann's children were called Peter and Betsy/Elizabeth) moved from Kingoodie, west of Dundee, to Moray, where Ann was born in 1823. Some time later, they returned to Kingoodie, leaving Ann behind.

 After James (Ann's hubby) was drowned in 1860, Ann moved to Dundee to be near her mother.

 An Edinburgh researcher told me a couple of decades ago, that it was highly probable that John Ross, or the enumerator, had probably described and/or recorded Ann as 'step-daughter' instead of
'daughter-in-law'.  Ann's father was alive and kicking in Kingoodie at the time of that census. Proof positive is in Ann's death cert, where it shows her parents were Peter Small and Betsy Shaw.

  As for John Ross, the OPR shows his birth as 10 December 1853, and that of his brother Peter, a mere 5 months later, is logged as 15 May 1854!  On the OPR showing Peter's birth, the  page doesn't have a page number, and the birth records on it are in the following  sequence, 1830, 1833, 1851, 1848, 1854, 1842, 1854, 1853. The entries have obviously all been recorded at the same time, and in higgeldy piggeldy fashion,  a mistake waiting to happen! Apart from the birth entry I have found no other evidence of him.
 A newspaper report of James Ross' death said that he left a widow and seven children. If we include John, then that report was correct. Where are you John!
 Anyway, back to the enigma of identifying James' father. The John Ross (Widower) in the 1851 census, is nowhere to be found after that date,  and I believe it's because it was he who drowned when the Ann Garrow was wrecked in the 1860 gale.

What do you reckon? ;)



Offline MonicaL

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Re: John or James Ross?
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 17 May 12 14:24 BST (UK) »
Hi Jim

I reckon you are on the money! Need to get your proof though which is what always drives us with this at times maddening research.

I added a link to my last post http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/en/site/254957/details/ann+garrow+troup+head+north+sea/ Have you exhausted all the links for information there regarding the names of the two crew members lost with the sinking of the Ann Garrow?

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline MonicaL

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Re: John or James Ross?
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 17 May 12 14:27 BST (UK) »
For James on http://libindx.moray.gov.uk/mainmenu.asp, it includes this:

DROWNED INTERRED IN ST NINIANS CEMETERY ENZIE

Have you followed through any possible burial registers to see (if they exist) whether there is any further info noted?

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline katman

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Re: John or James Ross?
« Reply #6 on: Friday 18 May 12 01:31 BST (UK) »
Monica, re the RCAHMS site; I have checked that line, and they don't have the names of crew deaths.

 Many years back, I checked for St Ninians (Enzie) burial records through a local minister, but came up empty handed. Perhaps I was looking in the wrong place.

 Mind you, James' death, while lacking the basic, but most important, details, does have the gravediggers name! 

I've even been tinkering with the possibility that the John Ross shown in the 1851 census, may have been an uncle of James. So many Ifs......so many Ross's.

 What I need is more straws to clutch at. ;D

Offline ninjatracey

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Re: John or James Ross?
« Reply #7 on: Friday 16 August 13 22:03 BST (UK) »
Born 10 July 1821 - Duffus
Died 3 October 1860 - Drowned at sea , age at death: 39 years old
Parents

John Ross 1793-
Jean McIntosh 1797-
Spouses and children

Married 23 January 1846 , Duffus, to Ann Small 1823-1908 with
F Elizabeth Ross 1848-1909
M John Ross 1853-
M Peter Ross 1855-
F Susana Ross 1858-
F Anna Marie Ross 1859-1942
F Maria Ross 1860-

Hi I am descended from Elizabeth Ross the eldest daughter.

Offline katman

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Re: John or James Ross?
« Reply #8 on: Friday 16 August 13 22:51 BST (UK) »
Hi Tracey, I think our paths and posts have crossed before, and I am a distant (Australia  ;D) relative of yours!

 I have sent you a PM.

Jim