Margaret Jones b. Trawsfynydd d. Margaret Pierce Ffestiniog

[abstraction]

I've been wanting to solve this for over 20 years, but I can only search free indexes, and it isn't adding up...

Margaret Jones (1814-1838)
* married Evan Pierce (b.11 Oct 1801 Ffestiniog) on 29 Aug 1834 at Ffestiniog. (From LDS microfiche years ago. Are there more details about where she was born or parents?)
* Son John c. 1834 (can't find birth)
* Daughter Elizabeth christened in Ffestiniog 6 Feb 1837
* Died 1838 Bwlcha Ffestiniog. (I believe it's 10 Feb, but can't find it anywhere).

Some 25 years ago I copied the LDS index that had Margaret Jones b.1 Jan 1814 christened 20 Feb 1814 Trawsfynydd - parents Richard Jones & Margaret Jones. Trawsfynydd is very close to Ffestiniog.

Family search lists them as separate
Margaret Jones, Birth or christen 1 Jan 1814 Richard Jones Margaret Jones
Margaret Jones Birth or christen 20 Feb 1814 Robert Jones & Catherine Owen.
Both have  same reference:
Index C05752-1 System origin Wales-ODM source film number:104547

Were there two Margaret Jones born in the tiny village of Trawsynydd in the same year, with one born on the day the other was christened? Or was there a copying error?

Any help appreciated.  Keeping up with any Joneses in Wales is challenging. 
 

[CaroleW]

(From LDS microfiche years ago. Are there more details about where she was born or parents?)

Marriages for that period do not contain that type of info.  Marriage certs never show place of birth or mothers names.  From 1.7.1837 fathers names and occupations were included

Some 25 years ago I copied the LDS index that had Margaret Jones b.1 Jan 1814 christened 20 Feb 1814 Trawsfynydd - parents Richard Jones & Margaret Jones. Trawsfynydd is very close to Ffestiniog.

If you check the IGI entries online you will find that both dates are christening dates which is why they are 2 separate families

Daughter Elizabeth christened in Ffestiniog 6 Feb 1837
* Died 1838 Bwlcha Ffestiniog. (I believe it's 10 Feb, but can't find it anywhere).

Freebmd has one in the September qtr 1838 but Registration district is Machynlleth

[abstraction]

If you check the IGI entries online you will find that both dates are christening dates which is why they are 2 separate families

Thank you for responding.  But the microfiche entry contradicts this. It has both dates under the same parents - Richard & Margaret Jones: Margaret born 1 Jan 1814, christened 20 Feb.  There are three possibilities:
1. The LDS microfiche is wrong - a copying error. There are two margaret jones.
2. The IGI entries are wrong - a copying error. THere is one margaret jones.
3. Both are correct: Margaret was born on 1 Jan 1814, and christened on 20 Feb, teh same day another margaret Jones was born in the same town.

[Gadget]

Hi

The IGI extracted records for most of the North Wales counties are sparse and, according to the Hugh Wallis site, the only online  records for Trawsfynydd are baptisms in the established church from 1813-1839.  Online records for Ffestiniog are even fewer, with only the records for Bethesda Calvinistic Methodist available online.

It is not unusual to find more than one Margaret Jones being baptised in the same year, even in small settlements. In my experience, Margaret was one of the most popular girls names (along with Jane and Mary) and we need not say anything about the frequency of Jones. (I have at least 4 Margaret Jones from the area in my tree)

Gwynedd FHS may have published some booklets covering the area but it's most likely that the information that you require can only be obtained from the Records Offices or on fiche from the LDS

http://www.gwyneddfhs.org/  lists available publications*

The Registration District for Ffestiniog was Ffestiniog:
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/ffestiniog.html

Full listing:
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/mer.html


Sorry that these records are so difficult to obtain.

gnu

*Added - I see that Gwynedd FHS have published a full range of Monumemtnal Inscriptions for Ffestiniog

[abstraction]

Thank you both for helpful responses.

I'm trying to think how to solve the puzzle. 
1. Death in 1838 - i understand english death certificates won't mention parents. So there's no point pursuing that.
2. Marriage in 1834 - which is too early for govt records I think. Will church records provide father's name? Where would I find church records for a ffestiniog marriage in 1834?  I'll have to look at the publications you mentioned. 
3. Tombstone. If this gives a date of birth i'm certainly halfway there.

Failing those, I'm at a loss. With all the people I'm searching for, it's strange how I've always had a soft spot for this young woman.  As if somehow finding her origins validates her short life.

[Gadget]

Hello again

It is very difficult to do these searches from afar 

I can't think of any way for you to get the relevant information without using one of the methods that I've mentioned - Records Office, LDS film/fiche or Gwynedd FHS. Maybe someone might be going to the Records Office and do a look up for you. Otherwise, it might be worth e-mailing the Records Office and see if they could help you:

http://www.gwynedd.gov.uk/gwy_doc.asp?cat=3693&doc=12971&language=1

I checked the death that Carole mentioned - it is for an Elizabeth Pierce in Machynlleth rather than a Margaret Pierce in Ffestiniog. I think that she might have misinterpreted the one you were referring to as it was on the following line from your mention of Elizabeth.  I see that the two children are both with Evan on the 1841.

The only death that I could see for a Margaret was in 1840 in Caernarfon. I didn't recorded it but can find it again, if you'd like.

I'm ever so sorry that I can't be of any more help.


gnu

[abstraction]

On the contrary - you've been a lot of help. Understanding what is possible gives me clarity on the nature of the search, what can be done, as well as limitations.  It means I don't waste my time looking for online resources that don't exist.

You have access to the census records - I can't find anything on Ffestiniog in the free searches that I'm aware of. Is there somewhere I can look these up?  Or are you able to copy the information for these in a simple cut and paste? If it's more complex than that, please don't worry.

I'm interested in the census records for two households:
* Evan Pierce 11 Oct 1801 Ffestiniog - 3 Nov 1861  Ffestiniog. I believe his address was Bwlch Hwfa.
* His father Pierce David 19 Nov 1758 (or1755), Bwlchywa, Ffestiniog - 14 Nov 1847, Caernarvonshire or Ffesiniog (yes, there's a contradiction in my sources.)

I've always thought Bwlch Hwfa & Bwlchywa are the same house but that may not necessarily be correct.

[Gadget]

1851

1 Bwlchhowa, Festiniog
HO107/2512/235/19

Evan Pierce, widr, 48, farmer of 20 acres employing no labourers, b. festiniog
John, son, 16, farmer's son, b. -do-
Elizabeth, dau, 14. b. -do-
Catherine Roberts, serv, unm, 39, maid servant, b. Penmachno

[Gadget]

1841

 Bwlchh wa, Festiniog
HO107/1427/3/29/14/

Evan Pierce, 35, farmer
John,  5
Elizabeth 4
Margaret Williams, 20, F.S
Jerimiah Williams, 20 , labourer
Humphrey Williams, 20, labourer

All born county


gnu