Author Topic: A Scotsman born in Russia?! Coutts/Petrie/Carrie(Completed with thanks)  (Read 20195 times)

Offline Fide et Fortitudine

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Re: A Scotsman born in Russia?! Coutts/Petrie/Carrie - Arbroath
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday 03 July 13 10:39 BST (UK) »
Hi JM, yes, the original census says Russia (see screen capture below).  If it was Rossie, we would see county Forfarshire or 'Do' (ditto) before it.  The handwriting is clear enough anyway.

Also, Flattybasher 9 (Malky) has seen another record with his birthplace as Narva, then under Russian rule.

Osprey, I think you're right, the policeman has to be the bleachfield manager who went to Russia, and his parents were Francis Coutts & Mary Still.  Hence the grandchild named Francis Alexander.  I've seen Francis's death reg (1887) - d. aged 80 of paralysis and general debility, at Banchory Devenick.  The register is at Kincardineshire but it says Aberdeenshire in brackets next to Francis's name.  He was an "acid cure practitioner" (some kind of unconventional, unqualified doctor?).  Husband of Mary Still.  Father: Alexander Coutts, a farmer (deceased), mother Ann Coutts MS Summers (deceased).  Witnessed by William Coutts, son, of Belmont Avenue, Uddingston, near Glasgow. 
- SP Statuory Deaths 251/01 0001

Estimating Francis's birth year c. 1807, I can't find his OPR birth anywhere in Scotland, +/- 5 years.  Or any marriage reg for Alexander Coutts, the farmer, and Ann Summers/Sommers/Simmers/Symers.  I'm interested in this farmer now!  But that's going back into the late 1700s.  Difficult. 
Fide et Fortitudine - By fidelity and fortitude
"I force nae freen" - I force no friend and fear no foe

Offline Fide et Fortitudine

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Re: A Scotsman born in Russia?! Coutts/Petrie/Carrie - Arbroath
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday 03 July 13 16:15 BST (UK) »
From http://genforum.genealogy.com/coutts/messages/415.html:

"Alexander Coutts (abt 1775 - 7 Mar 1853), who is buried at St Peter’s Graveyard, King Street, Aberdeen. Alexander was father of Francis Coutts, the inventor of the ‘Acid cure’ using acetic acid for a variety of ills (I have a bottle, but don’t think I’ll try it). We have a biography of Francis written by his son John, which identifies his parents and Francis’ birth on 5 Mar 1806 in the croft at Cuttleburn, Coull, near Aboyne, Aberdeenshire. Alexander’s birth was recorded in Logie Coldstone (only a few miles from Coull) on 5 Nov 1773 – a little early from the date back-calculated from his MI, but not unreasonable, with parents William Coutts (27th Mar 1736) and Elspet Williams of Bethen, who married 31 Dec 1767. William himself is probably the son of William Coutts and Jean Farqur."
- By Christopher Lyal [I have a Lyall on my family tree.]

On SP -
05/11/1773   COUTS  ALEXANDER   WILLIAM COUTS/   M   LOGIE COLDSTONE/ABERDEEN   217/00 0010 0033   [this is the farmer, Francis's dad, husband of Ann Summers/Somer]

I still can't find Francis's OPR birth, 1806.  Nor the Couts-Summers marriage circa 1790-1807.  On SP I can see an Alexander Couts marrying an Ann Kesson in Logie Coldstone, 1791.

Apart from Francis, Alexander Cout(t)s and Anne Simmers/Symers also had children Janet Couts (b. 1797) and William Coutts (b. 1798), both born in Midmar, Aberdeenshire.  [On FS]

From the book, "Scottish Notes and Queries" Vol. VIII (1894) -

"... in lore passing irom this point,
however, I ma)' lu: allowed to remark that
Aberdeenshire has been almost as much notcil
for the number of great i|uacks it has ])roduced
as for its fertility in dislmgnished meml}ers of
the legitimate piofessioii. 'I'hus, without in-
cluding Adam Donald, the famous Witch
I Jocioi and I'lophel of ISelhelnie who flourished
ill .'\bi rdeeiislme in ihe i.Sth Century, it is a
signilicaiU fact that even m oiu" own cenlury
iIkiI iiMinty has been v ei y smcesbful in raising
uiilable quacks. For perhaps the mostsuccess-
hil (.(tiack of the. ceiiiuiy, James Morison, the
notorious " hygeist" as he called himself, whose
pills had a run that few patent meilicines have
ever had, was of Abeideenshirc- birth, ami hailed
bom. the parish of !• (Ugue ; v\hile Francis Coutts,
the inventor of what is known as the acid cure,
was also .111 .\berd>.ni,m bred and bom."
[my emphasis]

http://archive.org/stream/scottishnotesque08aber/scottishnotesque08aber_djvu.txt

 ;D









Fide et Fortitudine - By fidelity and fortitude
"I force nae freen" - I force no friend and fear no foe

Offline Fide et Fortitudine

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Re: A Scotsman born in Russia?! Coutts/Petrie/Carrie - Arbroath
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday 03 July 13 16:28 BST (UK) »
Book: 'Memoirs of the life of Francis Coutts: Originator of The spinal system of treatment and The acid cure' by John Coutts (1887)

Out of print.  Not available on Amazon. 
Fide et Fortitudine - By fidelity and fortitude
"I force nae freen" - I force no friend and fear no foe

Online osprey

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Re: A Scotsman born in Russia?! Coutts/Petrie/Carrie - Arbroath
« Reply #21 on: Wednesday 03 July 13 18:21 BST (UK) »
Francis gives Coul as his place of birth on the census. I was thinking it was a strange change from bleacher's labourer in 1851 to acetopathist in 1881 (he's in Largs, Ayrshire). So I had a little look for acetopathist and found this

http://genforum.genealogy.com/scotland/messages/60863.html

who would appear to be the 3 month old Robert from the 1841 census in an earlier reply.

I'm with Christopher Lyal, I'm not tyring the 'cure'!

 ;D
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb


Offline Fide et Fortitudine

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Re: A Scotsman born in Russia?! Coutts/Petrie/Carrie - Arbroath
« Reply #22 on: Thursday 04 July 13 12:05 BST (UK) »
There has been recent medical research into the use of acid to treat neurological disorders causing paralysis. 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19273918
http://www.ninds.nih.gov/news_and_events/news_articles/news_article_sma_valproic.htm
So perhaps the pioneering Francis was onto an early prototype and it just needed another 200 years or so of R & D.  He died of paralysis himself, which might explain his interest in curing it. 

So his son, Robert, followed in his dad's footsteps in acid therapy, married a Jane/Jean/Janet Henderson in Old Machar and they emigrated to Australia.  Thanks for that, Osprey.  The Henderson connection is handy.     

According to Christopher Lyal, Francis Coutts was born in 1806 in the croft at Cuttleburn.  I think this is Francis's younger brother -

16th July, 1812  Alexander Coutts in Cuttleburn had a son baptised named Alexander.  Witnessed John Henderson Johnston(?) of Couttes Peter, high in Coull.  [hard to read]
O.P.R. Births 182/00 0010 0124 COULL/ABERDEENSHIRE 1812 COUTTS, ALEXANDER

This puts dad Alexander, the crofter, (and Ann Summers?) in Coull in 1812.  It doesn't tell us who the mother is.  The Coull connection is interesting because it's only 6.6 miles from Birse, where my g-g-g-g grandfather, another Alexander Coutts (corn miller) was born in 1762.  The crofter's father was William Coutts (husband of Elspet Williams), b. circa 1750.  I know that my g-g-g-g g/f had a brother William, because he witnessed one of the sons' baptism.   

Alexander Coutts, farmer, is on the 1841 census, living in Old Machar, Aberdeenshire with a possible second wife, Elizabeth, (or widowed sister?) and a Henderson man.  Ann Summers may have died.   
 
- Alexander Coutts, 68, farmer, born in county
- Elizabeth Coutts, 60, not born in county
- John Henderson, 31, bleacher, not born in county
SP  Census 1841 COUTTS, ALEXANDER  168/0B 040/00 015

There is a John Coutts, son of an Alexander Coutts & an Elizabeth, b. 1820, Crathie & Braemar.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYXQ-9VM 
Possibly the same Alexander (the crofter)?

If I could find Alexander's death reg, which Chris Lyal very specifically says is 7/3/1853, it might tell me who his wives were.  A death cert for Ann Simmers would also be handy. 








Fide et Fortitudine - By fidelity and fortitude
"I force nae freen" - I force no friend and fear no foe

Offline Fide et Fortitudine

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Re: A Scotsman born in Russia?! Coutts/Petrie/Carrie - Arbroath
« Reply #23 on: Thursday 04 July 13 13:55 BST (UK) »
Possibly another (earlier) child of Alexander Coutts & Anne Simmers/Symmers/Summers here?

15/11/1791   COUTTS   -----   ALEXR. COUTTS/ANN COUTS FR137 (FR137) CRATHIE AND BRAEMAR   /ABERDEEN   183/00 0010 0151

No name recorded for the child.  "Alexander Coutts in Lipi[?] of Tullochory and Ann Coutts his spouse had a child baptised Nov 11th 1791 and named ---- [left blank]

If it's the same Alexander (crofter), he would have been 18 years old. 

And this might be Ann's christening, 1773 at Craig near Montrose (Angus), dau. of James Symmers and Elizabeth Scott:  https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYNP-6QB




Fide et Fortitudine - By fidelity and fortitude
"I force nae freen" - I force no friend and fear no foe

Offline Fide et Fortitudine

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Re: A Scotsman born in Russia?! Coutts/Petrie/Carrie - Arbroath
« Reply #24 on: Friday 05 July 13 09:45 BST (UK) »
There is a wealth of information on the Francis Coutts story on http://genforum.genealogy.com/coutts/page2.html, contributed by his direct descendants.  [If you scroll down that page, half way down there are at least 15 posts on 'Francis Coutts b. 1806'.] 

I'm pretty sure now that I'm not related to this family, but it was still interesting to find out! 

Query completed.  Thanks very much to all. 



Fide et Fortitudine - By fidelity and fortitude
"I force nae freen" - I force no friend and fear no foe

Offline swallowcrest

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Re: A Scotsman born in Russia?! Coutts/Petrie/Carrie(Completed with thanks)
« Reply #25 on: Monday 29 July 13 22:42 BST (UK) »
I need to do a little checking with this wealth of information.  I have details of Alexander b.1831 and his children with Elizabeth Trail, but not of Elizabeth Anderson.  Between 1860 and 1866 Alexander's brother William (b.1835) was manager of a flax mill in Narva, which provides an intriguing link; three of William's children, John (b. 1862), William (b. 1864) and Ann (n. 1866) were born there.  By 1871 he was the manager of a flax mill in St Vigeans, Angus.  Later he joined his father's acetic acid business.  More when I've reconciled what you've uncovered with what I have.
Chris Lyal

Offline Fide et Fortitudine

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Re: A Scotsman born in Russia?! Coutts/Petrie/Carrie(Completed with thanks)
« Reply #26 on: Tuesday 30 July 13 07:30 BST (UK) »
Hi Chris, welcome to Roots Chat!   :D

Yes, please do share anything you have to add to this topic, or clarify it.  I've pretty much exhausted this line of enquiry now (for myself) as I found 'my' Alexander Coutts that I was looking for.  But if it will help others establish their family tree, do tell.  If there's anything I can help with let me know. 
Fide et Fortitudine - By fidelity and fortitude
"I force nae freen" - I force no friend and fear no foe