Author Topic: Numbers on Poor Law Application  (Read 2025 times)

Offline maggbill

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Numbers on Poor Law Application
« on: Sunday 28 September 14 14:34 BST (UK) »
Not sure if this is too difficult or if any experts might know this sort of detail. I have a technical question on Poor Law Relief application raised from one I have been lucky enough to obtain. 

Top of application page - there is  No. B66300.... then gives details of the application first done in October 1870.  Then through the two pages, it gives plenty of information, some of which doesn't seem in strict chronological order.  On page 2 the 1870 application is closed - but then includes further application by the person in 1872, this section having another Number B77489.  So, I presume this second number does not relate to any other separate page entry..
However going back to page 1... at a certain stage it says "See 3.44.149".......  does this mean there could be another record of some sort?  Different sort of number - so maybe not?  What would it relate to?  Any ideas anyone?
McNab, Kenney, Johnstone, Carrigan, (Cargan, Kirgan, Corrigan), Toll, Tracey, McNulty,  Reilly, Maguire, Loughlin, Banks, McGonagle, Forsyth, McDonald, Michael,  Kennedy, Bagnell, Cronan, Dunleavy, McMullan. -  Glasgow, Ireland, British Columbia Canada, Manchester New Hampshire USA.

Offline osprey28

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Re: Numbers on Poor Law Application
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 28 September 14 22:47 BST (UK) »
Could you post up the document - it might help if we could see it.

Regards

Osprey
Allan / Gordon / Aitken / Milne / Grant / Burnett in Aberdeenshire.  Allan / Alexander / McGowan in West Lothian / Davidson in Fife / Dempster in Lanarkshire / Allan / Burnett USA & Canada

Offline maggbill

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Re: Numbers on Poor Law Application
« Reply #2 on: Monday 29 September 14 08:30 BST (UK) »
Hi Osprey,
Here is first part of Poor Law relief doc.
Thanks
McNab, Kenney, Johnstone, Carrigan, (Cargan, Kirgan, Corrigan), Toll, Tracey, McNulty,  Reilly, Maguire, Loughlin, Banks, McGonagle, Forsyth, McDonald, Michael,  Kennedy, Bagnell, Cronan, Dunleavy, McMullan. -  Glasgow, Ireland, British Columbia Canada, Manchester New Hampshire USA.

Offline maggbill

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Re: Numbers on Poor Law Application
« Reply #3 on: Monday 29 September 14 08:36 BST (UK) »
And here is the second "number" on this first page which I am wondering about.  Sorry I couldn't scan all this page in one - too big a file.
Cheers
Maggs
McNab, Kenney, Johnstone, Carrigan, (Cargan, Kirgan, Corrigan), Toll, Tracey, McNulty,  Reilly, Maguire, Loughlin, Banks, McGonagle, Forsyth, McDonald, Michael,  Kennedy, Bagnell, Cronan, Dunleavy, McMullan. -  Glasgow, Ireland, British Columbia Canada, Manchester New Hampshire USA.


Offline ronoc

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Re: Numbers on Poor Law Application
« Reply #4 on: Monday 29 September 14 10:02 BST (UK) »

I too have an application for poor relief and on the first page where is says Other information to enable Parochial Board to decide case....  it gives details of where he was born and who his parents were. after his parents names are written it has b/d 6.16.466 and I have wondered what this reference relates to.

don't mean to butt in on your thread Maggbill but am interested in any responses  :)
Kehoe/Keogh, Lacey/Lacy, Whelan Wexford Town.  Sanfey-Oylegate Wexford,  Murray Co. Monaghan & Glasgow 7 Dublin, Whitmore-Dublin,  Gaines/Gains & Fox -Dublin,  Cleary/Clery-Dublin & Galway,  Wickham-Dublin, Devine-Glasgow, Kane-Dublin,  Barrett-Dublin & Co. Mayo   Docherty/Doherty-Co. Mayo.  Quirke-Wexford

Offline maggbill

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Re: Numbers on Poor Law Application
« Reply #5 on: Monday 29 September 14 10:09 BST (UK) »
Hi Ronoc,

Is your Poor Law Application in Glasgow - as is mine?  or elsewhere?  Just wonder if it is relevant to a particular location.
McNab, Kenney, Johnstone, Carrigan, (Cargan, Kirgan, Corrigan), Toll, Tracey, McNulty,  Reilly, Maguire, Loughlin, Banks, McGonagle, Forsyth, McDonald, Michael,  Kennedy, Bagnell, Cronan, Dunleavy, McMullan. -  Glasgow, Ireland, British Columbia Canada, Manchester New Hampshire USA.

Offline ronoc

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Re: Numbers on Poor Law Application
« Reply #6 on: Monday 29 September 14 10:29 BST (UK) »

Hi maggbill,

My application is also in Glasgow in 1884   :)

Kehoe/Keogh, Lacey/Lacy, Whelan Wexford Town.  Sanfey-Oylegate Wexford,  Murray Co. Monaghan & Glasgow 7 Dublin, Whitmore-Dublin,  Gaines/Gains & Fox -Dublin,  Cleary/Clery-Dublin & Galway,  Wickham-Dublin, Devine-Glasgow, Kane-Dublin,  Barrett-Dublin & Co. Mayo   Docherty/Doherty-Co. Mayo.  Quirke-Wexford

Online Forfarian

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Re: Numbers on Poor Law Application
« Reply #7 on: Monday 29 September 14 10:48 BST (UK) »
It looks to me as if the numbers starting with 'B' are the serial numbers of the applications. So your applicant first applied for relief in 1870, and the application was No BB66300. This application was duly processed, dealt with and closed when complete. The, in 1872, the same person applied again, and the new application was given serial number B77489. Rather than start a separate new page for the applicant, the clerk has added the new application to the same page, so that the whole of the applicant's history is all together, rather than being kept in chronological order. (Some parishes did keep them in strict chronological order, with a reference 'See No xxxx' to make the link to the applicant's previous history.)

The 3.44.149 could refer to a different set of records, for example the Register of Poor as opposed to the Register of Applications.

The procedure was roughly that you applied for relief, and your application was considered by the parochial board. If you were is desperate straits, the Inspector of Poor had authority to give emergency relief to tide you over until the board could consider and decide on your application. Once the board agreed that you were eligible for relief, you were placed on the Register of Poor, which usually recorded what payments or other things (like food, or rent, or shoes, or clothing) they gave you. If your situation improved and you no longer needed relief, or if they offered you some form of relief and you rejected it (most commonly people would reject the offer of being taken into the poor house) they would 'strike you off the roll'. If you then applied again, the board could reinstate you on the roll, and deal with you as then appropriate. So a successful application would generate two records - the application and how it was determined, and then the entries in the roll, or Register of Poor.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline maggbill

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Re: Numbers on Poor Law Application
« Reply #8 on: Monday 29 September 14 10:59 BST (UK) »
Hi Forfarian,
thanks for your information - and Yes, your description of how the various applications are put into one document, is exactly how mine appears.
And if the other type of number applies to the "Register of the Poor" - do you know if this still exists?  And if so, is it available?  what would it consist of - just a notification that the individual was "on their books" for want of a better description?
  I thought the only  Poor Law records available at The Mitchell were the actual "Applications"... but have never actually been there (would love to visit one day - and maybe spend weeks there!!!)...
Cheers

McNab, Kenney, Johnstone, Carrigan, (Cargan, Kirgan, Corrigan), Toll, Tracey, McNulty,  Reilly, Maguire, Loughlin, Banks, McGonagle, Forsyth, McDonald, Michael,  Kennedy, Bagnell, Cronan, Dunleavy, McMullan. -  Glasgow, Ireland, British Columbia Canada, Manchester New Hampshire USA.