Knotty little problems - London/Kent

[LDW]

A few of us have been worrying away at these tangles for a while with no luck.

I wonder if anyone can do for them what Alexander did for the Gordian knot?


1. William WEDD is allegedly born in Frindsbury, Kent, on 28 Mar 1762. His name has sometimes been transcribed as 'WOOD'.The 1841 census says he was born in 1762-3, but his death record says he was aged 84 or 85 in 1842.

Definitive birth date would be great. Names of parents would be wonderful. Siblings would be a joy! http://weddfamily.tribalpages.com/tribe/browse?userid=weddfamily&view=0&pid=3445&randi=137284619


2. Elizabeth WEDD is with him in the 1841 census, described as family servant. We think she's actually a daughter or maybe niece. She is born ca1818 Chatham, and marries William APPS 2nd 4tr 1845, Medway 5 479.

Censuses
1841: (with William) Little Shorsted, Gillingham.
1851: Marden, Maidstone, Kent.
1861: (as Elizth) Boxley Road, Chatham.
1871: Rose Hill Cottage, Capstone Road, Chatham.
1881: widow, dealer in wood, 1 Brough Hill, Capstone, Chatham.
1891: farm owner, 1 Brough Hill, Capstone, Chatham.

Date of birth would be great. Parents would be double great.
http://weddfamily.tribalpages.com/tribe/browse?userid=weddfamily&view=0&pid=1990&randi=201655313


3. George WEDD, b1826 Chatham, Kent, emigrated to Australia 1840. Parents thought to be Robert WEDD and Sarah FEARMAN, married 3 Oct 1813, St Botolph`s Northfleet.

Confirmation of birth would be great. Parents would be double great. Grandparents would be _brilliant_.
http://weddfamily.tribalpages.com/tribe/browse?userid=weddfamily&view=0&subview=0&pid=4996&g=0


4. Robert Pattenden WEDD is born 28 JUN 1792 and christened 29 Aug 1792 Saint Leonards, Shoreditch, London. His parents are William WEDD and Hannah (assumed to be Hannah PATTENDEN).
http://weddfamily.tribalpages.com/tribe/browse?userid=weddfamily&view=0&pid=3051&randi=801587082

It is speculated that this is the same Robert mentioned in 3) above, who marries Sarah FEARMAN.

It is speculated that his Dad is the same William mentioned in 1) above, getting married for the first time.

It is speculated that his brother is George William WEDD, born 1795 Chatham, Kent, baptised 6 May 1795 St Mary`s, Chatham, died 1819, Grenadier Hospital, buried 4 Dec 1819, St John the Evangelist, Smith Sq, Westminster.

Replacement of speculation by facts would be wonderful!



Any advice on making progress on these knotty little problems would be much appreciated. Thank you!

[Eyesee]

LDW

Have you looked through the PRs on the Cityark website

http://cityark.medway.gov.uk

Elizabeth WEDD and William APPS marriage at St Mary Chatham
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0kta/

Ian C

[LDW]

Elizabeth WEDD and William APPS marriage at St Mary Chatham
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0kta/

Excellent! Thanks, Ian.

This establishes that:

• Elizabeth's dad is William WEDD

[li]William APPS is a widower[/li]


[li]They both sign - so literate[/li]


[li]Witnesses are James APPS and Jane WEDD[/li]
[/list]

Does the absence of the word 'deceased' mean that both fathers are alive? Or do not all marriage records give this info?

Laurie

[softly softly]

Hi LDW,
May I ask who the witness was on the 1842 death record for William, and what was his occupation given as. The 1841 census as you say records his aged as 78 +/- 5 years. It would make William aged 76 when Sally was born?? Have you ever considered the baptism of a WILLIAM WED, Hollingbourne Kent baptised 22.12.1765, no parents recorded. At present some things are not ringing true.

John

[LDW]

May I ask who the witness was on the 1842 death record for William, and what was his occupation given as.

You may ask, but I fear the answer will be somewhat hollow. 

The only records we have are his birth (born 28 Mar 1762, Frindsbury, Kent, from Kent Baptism Records 1762-1767 Frindsbury, film 1469280, transcribed as 'Wood', parents William and Elizabeth), and this from Bredhurst for his death:

'Our records show two people of these names buried at St Peter's... Ann Wedd died on 24 Jan 1836 aged 44 and William on 18 April 1842 at the age of 85.'

The death record does not appear to have hit the national system - at any rate, we cannot find it.

The 1841 census as you say records his aged as 78 +/- 5 years. It would make William aged 76 when Sally was born?? Have you ever considered the baptism of a WILLIAM WED, Hollingbourne Kent baptised 22.12.1765, no parents recorded.

Oooh! Where did you find him? He's new to us, I think.

At present some things are not ringing true.

I'm glad you feel that too. We have struggled to make sense of it. Large chunks of this family all end up in the same part of Australia (Mount Barker SA), but establishing how they are all related is challenging.

[avm228]

The Bredhurst PRs on CityArk show the burial of an 84 yr old William WEDD of Gillingham on 24 April 1842:

http://tinyurl.com/6t29aga

Possible registration of the death with misspelt surname?

Death, Jun qtr 1842

William WEBB

Medway 5 248

[softly softly]

AVM228,
Think your spot on with the death registration. That certificate could well open some new avenues to explore.
LDW,
The 1841 census ref is HO 107 487 19 8. (Chatham)
William Wedd 78 - Farmer (c1763)
Elizabeth 22
Archibald 15 ag lab
Rebecca 11
Stephen 9
Sally 5
All born in county.
The children all have baptism records recording parents as William and Ann. I am starting to think they are all grandchildren of William Wedd, their father being a son of William(1763) also called William, their mother Ann who died aged 44 in 1836.
Will look a little deeper after I finish "proper paid work"

John

[LDW]

The Bredhurst PRs on CityArk show the burial of an 84 yr old William WEDD of Gillingham on 24 April 1842: http://tinyurl.com/6t29aga

That's the one.

Possible registration of the death with misspelt surname? Death, Jun qtr 1842 William WEBB Medway 5 248

And that's probably the one too! Thank you!

Why are other people on RootsChat so much cleverer than me?

I am starting to think they are all grandchildren of William Wedd, their father being a son of William(1763) also called William, their mother Ann who died aged 44 in 1836.

Ah. Well now you open ANOTHER can of worms.

Are the children who appear in the 1841 census the children or grandchildren of William WEDD 1762-1842?

We have argued long and hard over this one, but we now think the case is closed with this family letter from Ann SELVES (nee WEDD - the Ann listed in 1841):

"...Mrs Alsop and Ellen were here in August and we went to our old home Sharsted [sic] and sat under the red apple tree and had some tea. From there we went to Bredhurst to see our dear father's and mother's grave. So you see we still visit the old places...."

Syllogism:

• Ann, Ellen and Rebecca (aka Mrs Alsop) went to visit their parents' grave
• There are only two known adult burials in Bredhurst
• The two burials are William 1762-1842 and Ann 1792-1836

We conclude therefore that the parents of the children listed in 1841 are the two burials - ie William 1762-1842 and Ann 1792-1836 - and that said William was an old goat, taking a young wife and fathering a whole heap of children when he was in his sixties.

Though judging by the behaviour of some of his descendants, this seems not so unlikely. 

We also suppose - but have yet to prove - the existence of a first wife, possibly named Hannah, who may be the mother of several other family members from that area and period - eg Robert b1792

http://weddfamily.tribalpages.com/tribe/browse?userid=weddfamily&view=0&pid=4389&randi=613869997

You have thrown wonderful light on the subject already. It seems selfish to ask, but do you have any more?

[avm228]

"To see our dear father's and mother's grave" sounds as though (a) there was (probably) a monument and not an unmarked grave (many couldn't afford a stone), and (b) they were both on the same one.

Have you investigated whether there is a list of monumental inscriptions for Bredhurst - alternatively can the sexton help identify the grave and what is or was inscribed upon it?