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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Aussie1947 on Wednesday 07 July 10 16:23 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I'm researching the AUL (AUHL) family and I have a record of a Maria AUL (AUHL) marrying an Adolph J Neuman on 6th April 1846 at the Holy Trinity Church Adelaide ref ADE 1/233. There are no records of the parents or age for the bride and groom.
There might be a Dorothea in the name as well
I believe that this Miss AUHL came out to SA in 1846 on the George Washington along with Adolph Neumann.
If anyone has easy access to SA BDM records could they please see if there is a death notice for a Maria Neumann or Dorothea Neumann or Dorothea Maria Neumann or Maria Dorothea Neumann with a mother Maria Pruter and or Father Friedrick AUL.
There also might be only one N at the end on Neumann.
Thanks Gerry
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Hi Gerry,
There is
NEUMANN Adolph died 22 Jun 1860 Greenock Dist Ade Symbol A 9 155. He was aged 44 status relative not recorded residence Greenock
SEPPELT Joseph Wilhelm 42 status not recorded father Anton SEPPELT = NEUMANN Johanne Dorothea Sophie age status not recorded father Friedrich AUHL 2 Sep 1860 Res of Mrs NEUMANN Greenock Dist Bar 43 288
Cheers Kris :)
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BISA
NEUMAN Adolph born about 1816 doed 22 Jun 1860 SA 0ccupation Publican residence Greenock
NEUMAN F. (Adolph ) born Remershagen, Germany arrived 1846 GEORGE WASHINGTON 0ccupation Miller religion Lutheran
NEUMAN J. Adolph married 6 Apr 1846 Adelaide SA Maria D. nee AUHL
Cheers Kris :)
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Kris,
Thanks again for your excellent assistance, you have confirmed this AUHL connection for me.
Just for interest I had some success searching the 1819 Mecklenberg-Schwerin Sensus for the District of Detershagen. Even though it was in German the names and birth dates etc were easily legible and I was able to find good information from this document.
Regards
Gerry
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Kris,
If possible could you check a marriage and death for a Sophia Maria Bitter for me please.
Sophia (16) came out on the Peter Godeffroy in 1857 with her two brothers Johann & Franz Bitter from Detershagen Germany.
I have an unconfirmed note that says Sophia married a Johann Adolph RASMUS maybe around 1862!
Sophies's parents would have been Adam Christian (Carl) BITTER and Dorothea Catherina Elisabeth JENSS or JESSEN
Regards
Gerry
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There is this record and the only female DITTER marriage record - possibly mistranscribed.
RASMUS Johann Adolph 23 years Status not known Father Nicolaus RASMUS
DITTER Sophia Marie 20 years Status not known Father Johann DITTER
7 Mar 1862
At the residence of Mr Liebig, Greenock Bar/369
Deaths
RASMUS Sophia
7 Dec 1910 69 years Married Relative John Adolph RASMUS [Husband]
Residence Ucolta Death Place Ucolta Fro/353/469
RASMUS John Adolph
7 Jul 1917 78 years Married Relative H W RASMUS [Son]
Residence Nr Peterborough Death Place Nr Peterborough Fro 411/298
The reg states he was married at time of death but I can't see a 2nd marriage on the indexes.
Cando
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Thanks Cando,
Firstly, for the great information you have provided and secondly for finding the trascription error, a good find .
Ucolta is near Peterborough.
Interesting about the marriage at the time of death!
Regards
Gerry
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I think the Status Married could be an error. His son was giving the information and perhaps he was asked....was your father married? Perhaps the question wasn't asked about his wife being living or deceased. Information on death certificates is often inaccurate.
Cheers
Cando
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Cando,
I have been trying to find anything on a Christof Jochim Fritz BITTER who came out with his mother Dorothea Sophia Bitter on the President Smidt in 1848, Christof was 2 years old.
I was thinking maybe Christof's surname became AUHL instead of BITTER once sophia married Heinrich Christian AUHL (AUL) in September 1848. ( came out on the same vessel and was from the same village, Detershagen)
If possible could you check if there is any reference to a Christof Jochim Fritz AUHL either getting married or dying.
I know that Christian, Sophia and most of the children headed for Wodonga around 1869 so this would have made Christof around 22 and he probably didn't go.
It's a long shot but a possibility.
Thanks Gerry
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Hello I am new to this but noticed the ship name here so I was wondering if anyone could tell me how to find information on whether my ancestor Johanna Helmling was on this passenger list for the Peter Godeffroy in 1857 from Germany?
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Hi Sharon...and welcome.
This link has a passenger list for the PETER GODDEFROY
http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/australia/petergoddefroy1857.shtml
The compiler states that few German passenger lists survive and he is aware that there is information missing. Compiled from various resources.
Could you give me a little more information about Johanna eg her year of birth, parents names etc. I can see a J HELMLING arriving in Melbourne in 1866 and possibly the same person arriving Qld. May be a seaman.
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Hi cando!
Thanks for your response. I have some sketchy information on Johanna. She was born "about" 1838 followed a thread to find she came out here in 1857 on that ship. I am taking this information as true only because others have researched it and filled it in on other sites. She has parents listed as unknown on many sites but that's all I have so far. She did end up in Raymond Terrace where she had an son (Henry) around or before 1858. She went on to marry a man with the last name Martens and her son became often known as Henry Martens after that. I think that's all I have at the moment. Where was the J Helmling you saw?
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I have found a death notice in the NSW births deaths and marriages site for Johanna. It lists her parents names as John and Mary A. They sound anglicised to me though or simply untrue. She dies in Raymond Terrace.
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Hi Sharon
There was only one HELMLING marriage in NSW and the bride was recorded as "Jane" but I am sure it is your Johanna.
Do you have the marriage certificate for this couple?
2608/1858 at RAYMOND TERRACE
MARTINS Wilhelm
HELMLING Jane
Essie
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I have found a death notice in the NSW births deaths and marriages site for Johanna. It lists her parents names as John and Mary A. They sound anglicised to me though or simply untrue. She dies in Raymond Terrace.
This one?
HELMLING Johanna
REG 5943 Year1873
Father JOHN
Mother MARY A
At NEWCASTLE
The death indexing which you have found and cited as your Johanna is more likely to be for this child.
Birth
HELMLING Johanna A
REG 16311 Year 1870
Father JOHN
Mother MARY A
At RAYMOND TERRACE
Sue
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The child Henry whom you have mentioned, was registered in two surnames.
HEMLING Henry
11692/1858
Mother Jane
Father -
Raymond Terrace
MARTIN Henry
11692/1858
Mother Jane
Father -
Raymond Terrace
Sue
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Hi sparrett :)
Thanks for that info.
Yes it appears that Johanna often used Jane as her name. I'm not sure if Henry was actually born here or on a ship or in Germany before Johanna arrived. She may have not registered his birth until 1858 though, is that possible?
Henry later married in 1877 and his age was listed as 21 which would make him born in 1856 but that could be a lie to marry I guess as he married a woman of 37.
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Why do you think Henry was not Wilhelm MARTENS child?
Sue
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Because he was listed as Henry William Helmling, the illegitimate child of Johanna Helmling with father unknown on every thread of info that I have found. I am still not positive of her arrival year either as I have found no proof of that yet. Anton arrived in 1857, I am positive of that as I have now seen the ships crew record from that year. I am surmising that they may have been on the same ship from Bremen and for some reason did not want Anton named as the father. I wish I could find a passenger list from that ship-The Helvetia in 1857.
Also there is quite a bit of information listing Henry as taking his "stepfathers name" Henry often appears as Henry (Helmling) Martens.
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Because he was listed as Henry William Helmling, the illegitimate child of Johanna Helmling with father unknown on every thread of info that I have found. I am still not positive of her arrival year either as I have found no proof of that yet. Anton arrived in 1857, I am positive of that as I have now seen the ships crew record from that year. I am surmising that they may have been on the same ship from Bremen and for some reason did not want Anton named as the father. I wish I could find a passenger list from that ship-The Helvetia in 1857.
Also there is quite a bit of information listing Henry as taking his "stepfathers name" Henry often appears as Henry (Helmling) Martens.
I do not know who Anton is
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Anton is Wilhelm. Anton Wilhelm Martens. Sometimes known as William or Wilhelm or Anton
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I have found a nsw marriage of Jane MARTENS to Jacob Eggers in 1898. He died aged 74 in 1906 and she died aged 72 in 1910 with the name of Johanna Eggers. They lived at 24 Gurnard St Paddington Sydney and he was in partnership with Bartlett. Their warehouse was at 100 Clarence st Sydney. Hope this helps.
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Henry Helmling was born 28th August 1856 Ladenburg Germany. His mother, Johanna married Jacob Eggers in 1898 after her 1st husband died in 1896. The informant on her death certificate, dated 10th January 1910, was Alfred George Wells who married Johanna's granddaughter Ethel Martens. Ethel was my mother's aunt. Henry threw himself into Sydney Harbour 27th April 1916 with a section of Iron railing and was fished out a week later off Millers Point. This incident can be found in the SMH on trove.
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Buried Pioneer Hill Raymond Terrace.
INSCRIPTION
In Loving Memory of
Leonhard Koller
Who died 18th June 1877
Aged 70 years
also
Mary Agnes
Wife of the above
Who died 26th August 1886
Aged 71 years
Natives of Germany
They steer'd their course to the same quiet shore
Not parted long, and now to part no more
This stone is erected by their
Son—in—law and daughter
Anton William & Johanna Martens
of Raymond Terrace.
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Passengers aboard the barque Triton
from Hamburg 26th November 1852
to Port Jackson 30th April 1853
via Cowes Isle of Wight 18th January 1853
Leonard KOLLER age 47
Anna Maria KOLLER age 30