British West Indies: Harry Martin Clipp

[andrewdwilliams]

I would like to trace a gentleman who is a distant relation of mine, called Harry Martin Clipp. Harry Clipp seems to be a very interesting chap but as he served and died in the Mercantile Marine during World War One, there seem to be comparatively few records of his service. This is what I do know:

Harry Martin Clipp was born in 1896 in the British West Indies. His father is recorded as George Clipp by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission, who was born in 1873 in Sculthorpe, Lincolnshire.

On the 2nd May 1918, in the Parish Church at Llandough, Glamorgan, Harry married Nellie O'Neill. Harry at this time, seems to have been living at 6 Clarence Embankment, Cardiff, Glamorgan. Harry was 22 at the time of the wedding and Nellie was 18.

Twelve miles south south west of Lizard Point, Cornwall, on the 11th June 1918, the SS Lorle was sunk by SM UB103 with nineteen hands lost, including the Captain. Harry was amongst the nineteen lost on that day. The SS Lorle, a ship of the British Mercantile Marine, was travelling from Bilbao to Heysham with a cargo of iron ore.

It is evident Harry's body was never found as he is listed at the Tower Hill Memorial in London. This Memorial is dedicated to those of the Merchant Navy and Fishing Fleets that died in either World War and have no known grave.

So, if anyone has any means of finding out more about Harry, especially surrounding his birth, I would be extremely grateful.

[ShaunJ]

I see from the marriage register that George Clipp was a distillery engineer which mighty explain what he was doing in the West Indies

[andrewdwilliams]

I see from the marriage register that George Clipp was a distillery engineer which mighty explain what he was doing in the West Indies

Interesting, didn't spot that. It does make you wonder though, who exactly is Harry's mother?

[ShaunJ]

who was born in 1873 in Sculthorpe, Lincolnshire.

Is that assumed from the man who was in the Islington Infirmary in the 1901 census? I'm pretty sure that was a George Cliff, a stoker, of Scunthorpe. It's mistranscribed on Ancestry.

[ShaunJ]

These FindMyPast records have Harry's birthplace as London:

http://tinyurl.com/pjjgbe2

http://tinyurl.com/nrj7jsf

[andrewdwilliams]

These FindMyPast records have Harry's birthplace as London:

http://tinyurl.com/pjjgbe2

http://tinyurl.com/nrj7jsf

Thanks for pointing me to that - also haven't seen that before. The reason I believe Harry was born in the British West Indies, as you're likely to have come across, is because the Commonwealth War Graves lists him as being "Born in the British West Indies" on their list of people on the Tower Hill Memorial.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=CommonWarGraves&h=85281&ti=5538&indiv=try&gss=pt&ssrc=pt_t12290219_p26138414492_kpidz0q3d26138414492z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid

[jorose]

The information on the CWGC was probably provided by Nellie - that's not to say it's wrong just to say that it would be limited to what she knew about her husband.

Official number for the Lorle was 102744.  Therefore you might be able to find him on crew lists/agreements:
1918: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=C2480748
1917: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=C2480642
1916: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=C2480539

The contents of some of these BT99 entries has been transcribed on the catalogue. The information looks like this:

William R Guthrie; rank/rating, Ordinary Seaman; age, 22; place of birth, Edinburgh; previous ship, same.

Roderick Maclennan; rank/rating, Ordinary Seaman; age, 24; place of birth, Scalpay; previous ship, Jane.

G Harper; rank/rating, 1st Engineer; age, 58; place of birth, Leith; previous ship, same.

W Robb; rank/rating, 2nd Engineer; age, 55; place of birth, Fleetwood; previous ship, same.

D A McGregor; rank/rating, 3rd Engineer; age, 23; place of birth, Leith; previous ship, Mereddin.

O Karlsby; rank/rating, Donkeyman; age, 25; place of birth, Norway; previous ship, same.

If you can't get to Kew you could find out how much they'll charge for a copy of the 1918 list.  Not a huge amount of information but at least might confirm his birthplace (and perhaps give you something more specific than BWI), and give you a way of tracing a bit of his career.

[andrewdwilliams]

The information on the CWGC was probably provided by Nellie - that's not to say it's wrong just to say that it would be limited to what she knew about her husband.

Official number for the Lorle was 102744.  Therefore you might be able to find him on crew lists/agreements:
1918: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=C2480748
1917: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=C2480642
1916: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=C2480539

The contents of some of these BT99 entries has been transcribed on the catalogue. The information looks like this:

William R Guthrie; rank/rating, Ordinary Seaman; age, 22; place of birth, Edinburgh; previous ship, same.

Roderick Maclennan; rank/rating, Ordinary Seaman; age, 24; place of birth, Scalpay; previous ship, Jane.

G Harper; rank/rating, 1st Engineer; age, 58; place of birth, Leith; previous ship, same.

W Robb; rank/rating, 2nd Engineer; age, 55; place of birth, Fleetwood; previous ship, same.

D A McGregor; rank/rating, 3rd Engineer; age, 23; place of birth, Leith; previous ship, Mereddin.

O Karlsby; rank/rating, Donkeyman; age, 25; place of birth, Norway; previous ship, same.

If you can't get to Kew you could find out how much they'll charge for a copy of the 1918 list.  Not a huge amount of information but at least might confirm his birthplace (and perhaps give you something more specific than BWI), and give you a way of tracing a bit of his career.

Thank you very much Jo. It's unlikely I will be visiting Kew in person anytime soon so I will send off for them as soon as I can. Hopefully he will appear on at least one of these lists and hopefully they will confirm his birth location for a start.

[andrewdwilliams]

who was born in 1873 in Sculthorpe, Lincolnshire.

Is that assumed from the man who was in the Islington Infirmary in the 1901 census? I'm pretty sure that was a George Cliff, a stoker, of Scunthorpe. It's mistranscribed on Ancestry.

Just following you up on this remark, the reason I believe George Clipp was born in Scunthorpe in 1873 is because that is what it tells us on the Commonwealth War Graves entry for Harry.

EDIT: I believe, by searching George Cliff, I have found his 1911 and 1881 England Census entries too, and I have also discovered that he was married. However, I think he had Harry Martin before he was married.