William Carmichael birth

[spacecookie]

Thanks KHP.

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LDS have photographed the probate for the 1914 William CARMICHAEL. No genealogical info unfortunately.

Both William's 1906 Will and Isabella's 1914 Affadavit say "of Aratiatia". Not sure how that ties in with the "of Manawaru" in the death notice as they are a hundred-ish miles apart. At best a clerical error. At worst it's the wrong William.

Image 125 of 315
Probates 1914 rec 383-405
Hamilton District Supreme Court
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1971-32306-10186-64

The LDS website has really been playing up lately so persevere with the above link as it does work. Have successfully tried it using both Firefox and Chrome web browsers.

Regards
Beg

Hi, I just found a paper someone had given me a long time ago to do with the Biggs family and it says that T H Herberts wife Margaret lived in Coromandel while her husband served in the Land Wars against Hone Heke, afterwards living in Auckland in Coburg St and then in Bath Street Parnel. Had a Shoemakers Shop on the corner of Russell st and Parnell Road.So you were right about Parnell.Thought i would add this in case other people may be looking for info on this family.They had a family of at 15 children, who's names are listed.

[Beg Clonrode...]

Hi again...

Still following my own advice by tracing the CARMICHAELs who arrived on the Viola in 1865.

I would say the following is the husband of the Helen who died in 1876.

1881 Electoral Roll, Franklin North electorate
John CARMICHAEL
Place of Residence - Papakura
Occupation - Farmer
Nature of Qualification - Freehold
Comments - Lot 55 Kirikiri 10 acres

1893 Electoral Roll, Waipa electorate
Electorate - Waipa
John CARMICHAEL
Place of Residence - Papakura
Occupation - Farmer
Nature of Qualification - Freehold
Comments - Lot 55, Kiri Kiri

CARMICHAEL John - Papakura  1895 - 1895
http://archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=21443253

Maybe start a new thread asking for a probate look-up at Auckland Archives.

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Also at Auckland Archives is the following Register. Maybe ask for a look-up  to see if it gives any additonal details for the CARMICHAEL family that arrived in 1865 aboard the Viola.

Register of Immigrants 1864 - 1865
Waikato Immigration Scheme
http://archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=1889774

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PapersPast has a second report on the 1876 death of Helen CARMICHAEL which mentions that they are settlers.

Bottom of page 2
New Zealand Herald, 1 August 1876
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0wza/

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A John CARMICHAEL and a Mrs John CARMICHAEL are buried at Papakura Cemetery in what looks like adjacent plots.

CARMICHAEL, Mrs John
Papakura Cemetery, Great South Road Papakura
Lot: PPRS-G-111

CARMICHAEL, John
Papakura Cemetery, Great South Road Papakura
Lot: PPRS-G-112

South Auckland burial and cremation records search
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0bm5/

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Assuming they were from the UK you could also check the 1861 census for the family.

No proof at all that this is your CARMICHAEL family but I still think it's worth checking them out.

Regards
Beg

[Lucy2]

I have come to a dead end with William Carmichael, no idea if he was born NZ or not. .

Hi spacecookie

There doesn't appear to be a record of a New Zealand birth.

Your best information on his origins (including confirmation of his parent's names) should ideally come from his NZ marriage record of 1884.     (William himself would have provided details.)

If ordering the record from NZ BDM, be sure to request the printout (rather than certificate), as this gives the maximum amount of info.

  ~  Lu

[Lucy2]

... may be wrong, but have a feeling there may be a Scottish connection (re: CARMICHAEL). 

   ~  Lu

[spacecookie]

Hi again...

Still following my own advice by tracing the CARMICHAELs who arrived on the Viola in 1865.

I would say the following is the husband of the Helen who died in 1876.

1881 Electoral Roll, Franklin North electorate
John CARMICHAEL
Place of Residence - Papakura
Occupation - Farmer
Nature of Qualification - Freehold
Comments - Lot 55 Kirikiri 10 acres

1893 Electoral Roll, Waipa electorate
Electorate - Waipa
John CARMICHAEL
Place of Residence - Papakura
Occupation - Farmer
Nature of Qualification - Freehold
Comments - Lot 55, Kiri Kiri

CARMICHAEL John - Papakura  1895 - 1895
http://archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=21443253

Maybe start a new thread asking for a probate look-up at Auckland Archives.

-----

Also at Auckland Archives is the following Register. Maybe ask for a look-up  to see if it gives any additonal details for the CARMICHAEL family that arrived in 1865 aboard the Viola.

Register of Immigrants 1864 - 1865
Waikato Immigration Scheme
http://archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=1889774

-----

PapersPast has a second report on the 1876 death of Helen CARMICHAEL which mentions that they are settlers.

Bottom of page 2
New Zealand Herald, 1 August 1876
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0wza/

-----

A John CARMICHAEL and a Mrs John CARMICHAEL are buried at Papakura Cemetery in what looks like adjacent plots.

CARMICHAEL, Mrs John
Papakura Cemetery, Great South Road Papakura
Lot: PPRS-G-111

CARMICHAEL, John
Papakura Cemetery, Great South Road Papakura
Lot: PPRS-G-112

South Auckland burial and cremation records search
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0bm5/

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Assuming they were from the UK you could also check the 1861 census for the family.

No proof at all that this is your CARMICHAEL family but I still think it's worth checking them out.

Regard Beg     Hi, i just some info given to me regarding William Carmichaels marriage to Isabella Biggs and it say they were married 1884 in Oamaru South Island.  and one of their sons Archibald James Carmichael married Louisa Mabel Timblic 7/6/1916 at Otepopo Nth Otago (renamed Herbert). This was from someone researching the Timblics.They still ended up at Manuwaru though. Still no joy on Williams birth place or parents though.

[Lucy2]

CARMICHAEL - TIMBLICK marriage notice at >

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz

"New Zealand Herald" - 12 July 1916 - page 1 - Marriages

[Beg Clonrode...]

I just had some info given to me regarding William Carmichaels marriage to Isabella Biggs and it say they were married 1884 in Oamaru South Island.

The 1884 marriage notice in the NZ Herald says "at the residence of the bride's parents" which I read as being in Parnell

Hi again...

Have you viewed the ITM for William and Isabella's 1884 marriage. That would clear up whether their marriage took place in Oamaru or Parnell. You can start a new thread asking for an ITM look-up....similar to the following thread...

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0x2k/

Somewhere along the way you're going to have to follow Lucy's advice and purchase a printout of William and Isabella's 1884 marriage certificate, costing NZ$20.40 from the BDM NZ website. Realistically it's the only way you'll get rid of all the speculation.

1884/217 - Isabella BIGGS to William CARMICHAEL

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Speaking of speculation, I was looking through the 1861 Scottish census trying to find the CARMICHAEL family who came over in the Viola. I'm just guessing they're Scottish as the Viola left from Glasgow.

Viola - 1865
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0wz5/

Nothing really jumped out but there is a John CARMICHAEL (occupation slater) and his wife Helen (slater's wife). They have a ten year old son James and a three year old by the name of William DAWSON living with them.

A slater is similar-ish to a bricklayer. And the "James - 13 months old" on the transcribed passenger list may actually read "James - 13 years old" on the as yet unseen original passenger list.

Just speculating :-)

Regards
Beg

[minniehaha]

If William married in the Oamaru area it might be worthwhile sending an e-mail to the North Otago Musuem where a number of the old marriage registers are held.

If your man's registration details are held there, a copy of the marriage entry would show the actual signatures of the minister, bride, groom and witnesses. From memory the cost is less than obtaining a copy/printout (which does not have the original signatures) from NZ BDM.

The website:

www.northotagomuseum.co.nz

The e-mail address is provided here for any enquiries.............

Minniehaha.

[Lucy2]

 Hi, i just some info given to me regarding William Carmichaels marriage to Isabella Biggs and it say they were married 1884 in Oamaru South Island.  and one of their sons Archibald James Carmichael married Louisa Mabel Timblic 7/6/1916 at Otepopo Nth Otago (renamed Herbert). This was from someone researching the Timblics.They still ended up at Manuwaru though.

Hi spacecookie

Perhaps go back to the source of this information and re-check ?

But like Beg, I take from the newspaper marriage notice of 1884, that William CARMICHAEL and Isabella BIGGS married at the home of Isabella's parents ... who resided at Bath Street, Parnell (Auckland).

Maybe the confusion re: "Oamaru" arises from the marriage of Archibald James CARMICHAEL > see notice "New Zealand Herald" - 12 July 1916, Marriages - page 1 > who wed Miss TIMBLICK at Maheno       Maheno is a small township just south of Oamaru.

   ~  Lu