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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: UKfamilyrecords on Wednesday 03 August 05 16:54 BST (UK)
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I am trying to trace a French birth in Nantes (loire atlantique), I have a father's name and a year of birth: approx. 1840 - little else.
The Mormons do not have any records for this area that I can order and the only genealogist I can find wants almost £120 just to find one birth certificate.
Does anyone know of a genealogist in the region that might help?
Can anyone advise if the Archives Departmental will produce a certificate based on such scant information? I have heard they will not do a search.
Hoping someone can help!
Michelle
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Hi Michelle
You could try contacting the 'Mairie' ( the Town hall )
in Nantes.
I was also given this contact but have not done anything about it as yet
Centre d'Accueil et de Recherche des Archives
Nationales. 60 rue des Francs Bourgeois, Paris Cedex, 75131, France. Tel: 1-40-27-6000
Fax 1-40-27-6628
I have ancestors born in Brest and was there on holiday last year and managed to look at the records. The French record a lot such as fathers profession and mothers maiden name time of birth etc
I saw 2 of mine at the time but have since discovered another 4. I have sent an email to a site I found on the net (& I translated into French as well!!) but have had no reply. maybe I am unlucky or maybe I was looking in the wrong place! but this is the link hopefully !!
http://www.genealogy.tm.fr
Hope this helps
Cal
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Hi Michelle,
You should contact the Hôtel de Ville
Mairie centrale de Nantes
29 Rue de Strasbourg
44000 Nantes
Tel 02 40 41 90 00
Fax 02 40 41 92 39
You need a copie d'acte d'etat-civil. Normally free of charge but you will need to send stamped addressed envelope.
I have seen somewhere on the LDS site a standard letter in French which can be used. I will have a look later.
If you need any assistance, I would be only too pleased to help. My wife is French.
Regards
Geoff
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Hello again,
If you go onto the site:
http://www.nantes.fr/mairie/formalite/procedures/etatcivil.asp
and then click on Nantes Inter@ctive you can obtain a request form which you can send online.
If you prefer by post you can find an example of a request form in French on the LDS site under research guidance France.
If you have any problems or questions give me a shout.
Regards
Geoff
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Greetings again Geoff. My Gt.Gt.Grandparents eldest son was born c1848 in Rouen. Robert Hodgkinson was a Railway Servant/Engine Driver and I am told that the British were very much involved in the building of the French railways. Would you be able to point me in the right direction as to where I might obtain a copy of George Hodgkinson's birth certificate. Many thanks.
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Hi Janet,
You can apply on line to
http://www.rouen.fr/etatcivil/acte_naissance.php
It may be that as a foreigner living in France, the records will be held in Nantes. There is a special departement. Try Rouen first and if you want any more help,let me know.
Best wishes
Geoff
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Thank you Geoff. I think my school-girl French will get me through ! Best wishes.
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Hi everyone,
Thanks for all your help and suggestions. I will certainly give these things a go and see what I can come up with.
All the best.
Michelle
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Hello Geoff,
May I ask your advice about a birth in "Havre" around 1840. Do you think I can get a birth certificate for the baby, even though both parents were English? The parents were in England in 1837 (marriage) & again in 1842 (another birth), so they were not in Le Havre for long. They were simple, ordinary folk, so perhaps they wouldn't even bother registering the birth?
Any ideas?
What about baptisms? Would there have been a Protestant Church for that, or do you think that they might have waited until getting back to the England?
This is my direct line, Gt. Grandfather, so it is a bit depressing that I have no birth record for him! :'(
UKgirl
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Hi UKgirl
I can say that I have seen a number of baptisms ie. Dover, Kent for children of lacemakers in Calais etc. so it could well be that they waited for their return to the UK before baptism ???
Casalguidi
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Hi,
I can only suggest that you contact the archives at Le Havre. It sounds more likely that the child would have been registered in England or at a consulate. If you want to write you can find a copy of a letter in French on the LDS site which can be used for your request.
Sorry but don't know what else to suggest.
Arcives municipales
55, rue du 329°
76620 - Le Havre
Tél : 02 35 54 02 70
E-Mail : Archives[AT]ville-lehavre.fr
If you write it is best to send an international reply coupon.
Regards
Geoff
Moderator Comment: e-mail edited, to avoid spamming and other abuses. Please replace [AT] with @
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Hello Casalguidi,
That's fascinating about the Dover baptisms. Where did you see them, and how could you know that they were the children of lacemakers in Calais?
In my case, they were a blacksmith's family. I simply CANNOT fathom what on earth they were doing in Le Havre around 1840!!! And how would they have got there from Manchester? And if "on business", why bother to take the wife ;)?
The mystery persists......................
UKgirl
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Thank you, Geoff, for your kind guidance.
Based on the e-mail address that you have given me, I have searched on Yahoo using
"ville-lehavre acte de naissance"
and I found what I think is the homepage for the "Town Hall of Le Havre", and there is a "translate this page" sign next to the Yahoo search results. (Amazingly convenient, don't you think? Thank you, Yahoo!)
Then I scrolled down to:
Birth certificate:ask for a person born in Le Havre (not my wording!)
And when I clicked on that bit, it says "The acts of less than 100 years are preserved at the Service of the Marital status at the Town hall"
I don't know whether you or anyone else knows whether "less than 100 years" applies just to this location, or is this true for the whole of France?
Am I missing something? 100 years only takes us back to 1905-relatively recent for those of us with this maddening "hobby"!!!
UKgirl
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Hi UKgirl
C of E baptisms from 1812 are/were recorded (in most cases) on printed forms like this http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hockley/register001.jpg
Years ago, I was searching one of the Dover baptism registers when I came across several entries where occupation was lace-maker and abode Calais.
Like you say, Manchester is quite a way from France and "blacksmith" ??? It is possible that the child was baptised when they returned home if they were C of E perhaps even at the same time as a younger child ???
Casalguidi
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Hi UK Girl,
I know I'm coming into this a bit late, but it might be worth trying:
http://francegenweb.org/traduction/
I have recently sent an enquiry to them about a marriage in Morlaix - they don't cover all districts, but they have a map to show the ones they do. They say you might have to wait up to a month for someone to pick up your request. To make it easy for us, they have an online form that you can fill in, so you don't really need to know any French (apart from working out what the field labels are on the form, and even I could do that ;D )
Prue
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Hello Geoff P and others - I sent to Rouen a month ago for the birth certificate I am keen to get. Included a letter I had copied from web-site - filling in all details known- together with self-addressed envelope and international reply forms but nothing yet. Still hopeful. If nothing arrives I may just try the francegen website.
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Dear Prue,
Thank you for your suggestion, but if it is true that they only have birth records for 100 years, as I understood from the homepage of the Town Hall, then any further effort to obtain a birth record would be a complete waste of time. (2005-1840=165 years!)
But then, on reading Geoff's message again, perhaps the key word to all this is "archives"....?
UKgirl
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Well my cousin Cal (Cal241) went to France last year and went to the Morlaix Mairie, where she was able to see the original register entries for the births of two of our ancestors, dated within a year or two of 1836! So perhaps it depends on the particular Mairie?
Prue
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D'oh! Didn't realise that Cal had already posted a reply on this thread! :-[ Anyway, as I said, you might get lucky. perhaps the "less than 100 years" thing meant that the newer records are held in a different place from the older ones.
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I have found some great information, quite detailed. I shall post it as it might help someone else. (Hopefully, it will help me too!)
http://genealogy.about.com
Then down the left-hand side under "Articles & Resources" there is a section "Genealogy By Country".
There is very helpful information under the section for France, including:
1). "Beginners Guide to Researching Your French Ancestry".
2). "How to Request French Genealogy Records by Mail"
3). "Model Letter for requesting French Genealogy Records"
It is stated that "when records are 100 years old, they are placed in the Archives for the town's Department".
(So, thank you again Geoff for that Archives address).
But whether an English blacksmith's wife giving birth in Le Havre could be classed under "French Ancestry" is quite another matter! ;D ;D ;D !!!
UKgirl
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Hi UK Girl,
I was just about to crosscheck but was sure that the records would be in the archives and not in the Town Hall (Mairie). I hope that there is something recorded for you.
Good luck and if I can help don't hesitate to contact me.
If you apply by post it will certainly take some time.
Regards
Geoff
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Hello Geoff P - Went into the Rouen website you gave me and filled in online form. However, I was only able to put in the year of birth and it would not accept until I had entered the correct format - and gave as an example (JJ/MM/AAA or JJMMAA or JJ.MM.AA.)
I take it they are wanting the day and month also which I am unable to supply. Any suggestions please ?
Many thanks.
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Hi Janet (Emmeline)
I see what you mean. I think that you will have to contact the archives especially as it is more than 100 years.
Details are given below. It might be worth sending an e-mail to see if they can help you.
Regards
Geoff
76 - SEINE-MARITIME
Département de la Seine-Maritime. Archives départementales. Armelle Sentilhes. Quai Jean Moulin, 76101 Rouen Cedex. Tél. : 02.35.03.54.95 ; télécopie : 02.35.03.56.89 ; courriel : mary-francoise.breant[AT]cg76.fr. Lu.-Ve. 9 h 30 à 17 h 30 ; Sa. 9 h à 12 h (les 1er et 3e samedis du mois sauf veille de fête). Bâtiment annexe. 27 rue Lucien Fromage, 76160 Darnétal. Tél. : 02.35.03.56.49 ; télécopie : 02.32.12.19.37. Ma. 9 h à 12 h, Me. 9 h à 12 h et 14 h à 17 h. Fermeture annuelle pour les deux dépôts : du 1er au 8 juillet et du 24 au 31 décembre. www.cg76.fr/a
Moderator Comment: e-mail edited, to avoid spamming and other abuses. Please replace [AT] with @
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Hello Casalguidi,
A belated thank you for the suggestion about the baptism of the younger child-"perhaps they were baptised together". I myself had wondered that. I have other ancestors where several children were baptised en masse. In this particular case, though, although I already have the birth certificate for the younger child, it is unlikely that I will ever find the baptism record. Too many unknowns, church name (too many possibilities); year baptised, etc. and also no access (not on IGI).
And thank you too for the example of the page of C of E baptisms. I am an idiot really, because I also have photocopies of such baptism records for some of my own ancestors, and of course several babies/families are listed on each page. I just hadn't realised that that was what you were talking about- one of those dopey moments- the words "Calais", "lace-maker" and "Dover, Kent" made the whole topic seem so much more exotic that I had completely forgotten about having such baptism records for my own dear folks :-[
Thanks again,
UKgirl
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Dear GeoffP - Many thanks for your detailed reply and thank you for the trouble you take in seeking out this information. I shall bring out the French/English dictionary and try again! George H. was the only child born in France - the rest in England - Liverpool, Peterborough, London . There were 10 children in all but I have not yet found a marriage certificate for Robert & Mary Ann. I sometimes wonder if there was a possibility they were married in France - what do you think the likelihood of that would have been ?
Sending my appreciation.........
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Hi Emmeline,
I am not surprised that you did not receive ananswer yet. The month of August in France and some other European countries (like Spain) is a no month. Everyone is on Holiday . They will be waking up about now. It is called the Rentree. August is the month to visit Paris!
Gerald.
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Dear wilkipet - Thanks so much for the information. So that's the reason ! I think the French and the Spanish have the right idea on holidays and siestas. Have visited France just once and hope I'm not too old to visit Spain someday. Sending you greetings from New Zealand and hope you enjoy Rootschat - it's a great site.
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How do I go about finding the birth certificate of: Alexander Musart, born 1800, Wormhout, Flanders, France and Lucy Josephine Musart, born 1824, Calais, France? Help would be appreciated. Patrick
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I've sent off for records older than 100 years, to the local Mairie, and gotten a response (one no-show, he turned up at the village a few miles over). Generally it takes about six weeks or more, even at times of the year when it is not a holiday - genealogy requests are clearly not a priority!
patrk - your first placename is a bit confusing. Flanders is a region of Belgium, 'Wormhout' probably means Wormhoudt in the Nord region of France, although perhaps it could be a Belgium placename.
At any rate in this case the LDS hold Wormhoudt civil registration records, plus ten-year indexes:
familysearch #1 (http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=titlefilmnotes&columns=*%2C0%2C0&titleno=268685&disp=Registres+de+l%27%C3%A9tat+civil++)
There are also records for Calais in the same way, though you might have to be careful - the region is called 'Pas-de-Calais' also, so she might have be born in the area, not the city itself.
For those with British relatives born in the UK, there are also some records held at Kew but also available through the LDS for British nationals in the big French towns - Paris, Calais, Rouen, etc.
familysearch #2 (http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=titledetails&titleno=620700&disp=RG+33+series+%2D%2D+foreign+registers+an%20%20&columns=*,0,0)
Seems to go back to about 1815.
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Actually, Flanders is spread over northern Belgium AND France. Lille is the major city of French Flanders. Wormhout (or Flemish,Wormhoudt, is ten miles south of Dunkirk). Those whom I am seeking were French. Patrick
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Hello Jorose,
Your information about LDS records is wonderful for those with access to them, but for those of us who are struggling with a French birth, and who live in a country where there are no such LDS libraries to consult, it can feel pretty hopeless trying to get your hands on information.
Nevertheless, I am trying to be optimistic about an e-mail sent to Le Havre, but.............
(If I ever get a reply, I will let you all know!)
UKgirl
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UKgirl, the records I posted about are also held at Kew, although that might not be any better for you. The LDS film references are just for those with access to them, because that might be easier/cheaper than hiring a researcher to go to the National Archives and look things up. I'm not sure where you are in the UK, but you definitely can get access to those films here - I use the Cambridge LDS branch, it can take six weeks for things to arrive, but it's worth it when they do!
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Hello jorose,
Thank you for your effort to help, and for your encouraging words, but you may have misread the word "country" for "county".
LDS family history centres/libraries are non-existant in the country where I live.
But Cambridge is a beautiful place, and 6 weeks soon fly by. Not so long to wait to get some answers to all those burning questions. I wish you the best of luck with your own research.
Which reminds me, I read the other day that the LDS are going to put all their filmed parish records on the Internet!
Yippee ;D
But I guess it will take years to complete (or perhaps years even to start :-\!!)
Still, I can dream!!!
UKgirl
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Unfortunately I will not be going to Kew probably for many months - not sure when I'll have the time - when I do, I will try to do some lookups for the people on this forum.
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Hello jorose,
That was a kind thought. Hopefully, some of us may have made some progress in this department by then.
But, the thought and offer is very much appreciated.
Thank you,
UKgirl
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Thank you for the extremely helpful information. The web address you included took me right to the Wormhoudt page and I shall order the relevant microfilms. I tried to do the same for Calais in the LDS catalogue but I was unsuccessful. Could you lead me there? Many thanks. Patrick
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Perhaps this information may encourage others:
I sent an e-mail to Le Havre Archives on Sep. 9th. (Friday)
They replied by post office priority mail on Sep. 12th. (Monday)
Amazingly it arrived here (the other side of the world) on Sep. 17th. (Friday)
A grand total of one week.
They kindly carried out a search covering 5 years of the records of 5 areas.
Unfortunately, they could find no record of my great-grandfather's birth.
But, I feel grateful to the people on this forum for encouragement, and I hope others will feel equally encouraged to try, when they read this message.
I also feel very grateful to the French Archives Office for their kind, prompt reply.
I would also like to thank GeoffP for providing me with the correct address.
UKgirl
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Hi UK Girl,
Glad that you got a response even though negative. Have you looked at the consular registered births, but I think that they only start in 1849. They are at the FRC London but that is probably not much use to you.
Regards
Geoff
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Hello to all you folks with French rellies or ancestors born in France.
The lacemakers from Calais happen to be part of my ancestry and I hadn't a clue about this until one of your kind contributors told me so.
I'm still not quite sure whether the huband or wife or both were the lacemakers. I also can't quite see why he becamea policeman when he returned to Dover. Perhaps it was just a case of getting a job!
My gt. gt. grandfather William Geddes was born on 27th July 1843 in Calais and I now know how to go about getting his birth certificate or the French equivelant - so thanks for all your help.
William's father spent 11 years in France where 8 of there 15 children were born - only 6 of these survived adulthood. I'd be amazed if Mary found enough time to make lace I reckon she was too busy making babies.
Think this is a brillian site
I'm glad I'm not the only genealogy fanatic ! There seems to be an awful lot of us.
Best wishes and Bon annee
Jill
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I am trying to trace my French birth certificate. I was born in Neully, then my parents left. I have located the hospital where I was born.
What steps should I do in order to get it ?
i will be very appreciative to receive your kind help.
Anamaria
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Hi,
If your birth was registered in France you must contact the local Town Hall (Mairie)
Attached is a request form for Neuilly
http://www.ville-neuillysurseine.fr/files/neuilly/mes_demarches/demande-actes.pdf
Regards
Geoff
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Thank you, very very much !!!! :)
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I am trying understand how I can best access French birth records for 1850 to 1902. I've tried various web sites (Ancestry, GeneaNet, Geneactes, LDS) but there seem to be few searchable records on individuals. I know I can write to the Archives Departmentales du Pas-De-Calais or the Archives Municipales de Boulogne-sur -Mer but I was hoping I might be able to search the decennial tables or census records myself without having to take a trip over to France - I'm unsure about some of the birth years and I am limited to schoolboy french.
I am going to order microfilm from the LDS Family History Library but I'm unsure how comprehensive they are. Then I'll write to the French records offices. I am heading in the right direction or are there other things I should try?
Steve