GRAVES Thomas Henry

[Selina]

I agree.

Don't think the family originated in St. Ives and maybe not in Hunts?

There is a marriage on 7 Feb 1788 at St. Botolph, Cambridge
of William HAND of Holy Trinity, Ely and Mary GOTOBED otp
Witnesses: James and Ann GOTOBED

However don't suppose going back any further will be any help in the name change to Graves aspect.

Selina

[Selina]

Yes just double checked.  At the baptisms of his three children Thomas Hand was stated to be a butcher.
 
Sorry  not to have mentioned that but thought that as you had the bapts you had those details.  First rule - I must not assume things!

Selina

[Selina]

David - going back to your message No. 11.

I see that the Thomas Hand convicted July 1841, on prison hulk August 1841, deported for 7 years to VDL was a butcher, widower, three children.  So details match.  Maybe he never returned and therefore it is possible that when Thomas Graves (Hand) went to Australia in 1846 his father was still alive there! 

What a fascinating history.

Selina

[Selina]

The address given when James Graves died in 1921 and his wife Emily in 1923 was 73 Stanford Road, Brighton.

If a report of one or other of the funerals could be found in a local paper it would probably list mourners and if any of the Hand family (or names by marriage) were present it would show a definite connection.

Selina

[bedfordshire boy]

Thanks Selina. I'd seen that detail about Thomas in 1841, which I too thought added weight to my theory. I'm putting a tree together on Ancestry to try to clarify my thoughts - http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/62182709/person/48082887941 - called Graves/Hand Family Tree, although there are only 7 names in it so far

I found a report yesterday for the younger Thomas wherein he was described as "butcher's boy". Blowed if I can find it today!

David

[bedfordshire boy]

Yes just double checked.  At the baptisms of his three children Thomas Hand was stated to be a butcher.
 
Sorry  not to have mentioned that but thought that as you had the bapts you had those details.  First rule - I must not assume things!

Selina

Sorry, missed this post. Once again you've come up with the goodies Selina! I'm now totally sure that the Linton family is the one in Cambridge, and the same two Thomas' who were transported. All that remains is to prove beyond any doubt at all that Thomas jun came back from Oz and then re-emigrated, this time voluntarily, having between trips having adopted his mother's maiden name of Graves.

Perhaps I'll think about that minor problem down the pub!

David

[Selina]

David  -  Yes its all very convincing.

Pub sounds good!

Re burial of Sarah Hand 13 February  1834 Gt. St. Marys.  The entry states "of New Town St. Andrew Less 41".  There are quite a few similarly stating they were of St. Andrew Less from late 1833 into 1835.

The tree you are putting on Ancestry is very handy - helps keep things straight.

I haven't seen the 'butcher's boy' record but haven't looked at them all, whatever he was he was certainly a naughty boy but then he didn't have a very good example in his father by the sound of it!

I can well understand Thomas and James keeping their past secret, possibly even their wives never knew but I do wonder if the family of Uncle James Hand had stories passed down to them.

Selina

[Selina]

Just adding the details of the marriage you found.
Marriage 27 June 1841 St. Andrew the Less
Mary Ann (listed as HARD), sp 19 Servant of Union Road, New Town, dau of Thomas, Butcher

Selina

[bedfordshire boy]

Thanks Selina, all this detail helps to build up the picture. Still can't find the butchers boy reference - I know I'm not imagining it as I even wrote it down!

Linda - hope you're feeling better by now. Do you know in which documents Thomas is named as Thomas Henry Graves? The James Hand who moved down to Croydon baptised a son James Henry Hand in 1824

David