A strange request

[David Rose]

Hi Everyone,
I have what may be a strange request.
My Great Grandfather was illegitimate, but in 1911 came into a lot of money. (my guess is around £10,000).  I believe it was his birth father who left him this fortune.  I've looked up likely candidates but their Wills don't name my Ggrandfather.
My request is this; has anyone come across a "Fred Rose son of Elizabeth Rose" in a Will of someone from the Chatteris area - Probate about 1911?

Any help or advice would be gratefully received
Cheers

[Victor Harvey]

Hi,
All English & Welsh probate records can be searched and ordered through:-
leedsdprenquiries [-- at --] hmcourts-service.gsi.gov.uk
Victor

Moderator Comment: e-mail edited, to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please replace [-- at --] with @

[bedfordshire boy]

Hi David

Welcome to Rootschat

Cambs FHS has a wills index with names of all mentioned in the will, at http://www.cfhs.org.uk/searchsd.cfm but I can't see a Fred Rose.

Do Fred's marriage certs name a father? Did he name any of his children with a name that might have been his father's surname? Have you found his baptism as church records sometimes contain more information than what's on a birth cert?

Victor - But there's no online search option for post 1858 probates unless you have a subscription to Ancestry. Even then it's only searchable by testator, not beneficiary which aren't named at all in the National Probate Calendar, and it's the testator that David's looking for.

[dawnsh]

Hi David

Do you have your suspicions as to who his father is?

If so, the probate calendars can be searched for this name.

DAwn

[David Rose]

Thank you all for responding.
Family myth is that my Ggrandfather's mother went to her grave without telling anyone who her child's father was.
Fred wasn't baptised until after his mother's death.
Fred's solicitors (who dealt with his own will and house buying) destroyed all his records when they moved premises 10 years ago.
His bank (Yorkshire Penny Bank - now owned by Halifax) won't give up details of his account unless he gives his written consent.  When I pointed out that he died in 1928 they stopped communicating with me!!
I've checked out the local landowners (Fred's mother was working as a "Thatcher's Daughter at 14 and then an "Ag Lab" and wasn't "In Service") who died at around 1910 but non of them mention Fred in their Wills
Apart from finding him as a beneficiary - I'm stumped!

Cheers
David

[dawnsh]

Hi David

You haven't updated your profile so we don't know where in the world you are, but if you can, it might be worthwhile visiting the Cambridge Records Office and looking through the burial registers for Chatteris. Make a note of the men being buried and then cross reference those with the probate calendars which are online at Ancestry or in person at the Probate Search rooms currently at the Royal Courts of Justice in the Strand.

The calendar entrys show the value of the estate, but don't name the beneficiaries of the wills.

A bit long winded but do-able if you have the time and inclination.

Dawn

[Ruskie]

My Great Grandfather was illegitimate, but in 1911 came into a lot of money. (my guess is around £10,000).  I believe it was his birth father who left him this fortune.

 

I'm afraid I can't help you with anything constructive, but just have a couple of questions which I doubt will help you (but I am just curious).

How do you know that your Ggrandfather received this money, and how do you know it was an inheritance from a will?
How did you guess that it was £10,000?
Is there something specific which leads you to believe it was an inheritance from his father? (or it it just a hunch?)
Just wondering if there is a story behind this request. 

Although Halifax stopped communicating with you, if you believe they may have retained his bank details, it might be worth trying them again. If they won't give you full details, maybe ask if they could tell you who deposited the £ into his account around a certain date? (if this is what you are hoping to discover from his bank records). Explain to them that you are researching your family history and what you are trying to find out so they understand your motives.

[anneb]

It is also possible that if your ancestor did receive an inheritance under a will that the will might not mention him.It was not uncommon for fathers of illegitimate children to make provision for them in their wills under something called a secret trust.The testator would make arrangements beforehand with a trusted friend or lawyer who would agree to act as trustee.The testator would then leave a legacy to this person who would pass it on to the beneficiary.The beneficiary would not be named in the will so it would look as if the testator was leaving a straightforward legacy to the trustee.

If you Google "secret trusts" it will explain it better than I can.There was also something called a "half-secret trust"

[David Rose]

Thank you for your interest.

"How do you know that your Ggrandfather received this money, and how do you know it was an inheritance from a will?
How did you guess that it was £10,000?
Is there something specific which leads you to believe it was an inheritance from his father? (or it it just a hunch?)
Just wondering if there is a story behind this request.  "

My Ggrandfather Fred was a labourer in a print works in Lancashire earning between 10 shillings and a pound a week.  In July 1911 he bought a house (for £170) He bought houses in the town for other members of his family, laid on a "coming out party" for his eldest daughter, set up his own business and left £1000 when he died in 1928.  He was an active member of his local "Primitive Methodist" Church (I think he first joined them whilst a young man in Chatteris) and was known locally for putting a pound note in the collection box on a Sunday.  I seriously doubt this money came from anything "underhand" as it was a very small town (mostly filled with migrants from Chatteris) where everybody knew everybody's business.
The amount of £10,000 is a guess which I used to estimate whether what an individual left in their will made them a likely candidate for my further attention. [That seems like a long and ungainly sentence]

"Although Halifax stopped communicating with you, if you believe they may have retained his bank details, it might be worth trying them again. If they won't give you full details, maybe ask if they could tell you who deposited the £ into his account around a certain date? (if this is what you are hoping to discover from his bank records). Explain to them that you are researching your family history and what you are trying to find out so they understand your motives."

Apart from the bit about asking them who deposited the £ into his account (which is a great idea - thank you) I have actually done all that you suggest.