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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: copper john on Tuesday 28 June 11 09:49 BST (UK)
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Hi, Im new to this please be patient:I am researching my ancestors and have got back to a James Gorham c 2/8/1789 Aldington Ashford Kent. I am trying to go back further but cannot confirm. Father is quoted as a James Gorham m Mary Andrews at Hinxhill Ashford 26/3/1786.
The above are my ancestors and I know of two other Gorham branches from Kent and cannot find the link, as Kent/East Sussex are fairly small in area fuzzy logic would indicate a common ancestor.
I migrated to Western Australia (WA) in 1953 and am the eldest member of this Gorham branch now 74yrs, I would appreciate anyone being able to assist me in my quest.
Thanks and regards copper john Perth WA
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Hi John and welcome to Rootschat :D
There is a memorial listed for James GORHAM of Aldington who died aged 24 in Hinxhill Churchyard
http://www.kentarchaeology.org.uk/Research/Libr/MIs/MIsHinxhill/01.htm
There is also one for Mary, his widow, who remarried to James CHITTENDEN
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James GORHAM left a will. :D
There are also other GOR(E)HAM wills from nearby parishes which might be worth investigating.
http://www.kentarchaeology.ac/ekwills_a/series/ekp_p2/ekp_p2n_go.htm
They can be great for exploring relationships within families.
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Hi bearkat, thanks for response,my james Gorham went to London and became clock/watchmaker to the Queen and royal family, had a son francis also clockmaker, they both died in 1856 and are buried together at Kensall Green cemetary London.
I have a forum query in the august edition of foremost London Horology magazine so hope to get info regarding their working history etc.I also have Jame's will no clues here.
So we have a small problem, was someone using a nickname?can you please check if any birthdate for your James, mine was christened 2/8/1789 parents james m mary andrews Hinxhill Ashford 26/3/1786.
cheers copper john
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The MI at Hinxhill says:
1791 In memory of James GORHAM late of Aldington who died [26 June 1791 aged 24. Left issue by Mary his wife two children viz James and Hester]
That would fit in with your James.
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Thankyou bearkat, you are correct, I was thinking about james the son, just shows how silly to have father and son with the same name-just like my dear old dad with john!. I have done more research today and come up with Jame's jnrs sister as an Esther c 30/12/1787 at Sevington on LDS film no 1737007, the name differences could be a typo?,do you know if mary and james CHITTENDEN had any children which would have been half b&s to james jnr and esther by James GORHAM snr?.
Also same period is a Mary c 26/7/1789 at Aldington and James c 2/8/1789 at Aldington both on LDS film no 1736521- I am perplexed.
Is your interest in the Gorham name similar to mine, if so let me know what you are researching for my help to you, cheers from down under.
copper john
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The next MI mentions one son from the second marriage who died young. Kent MIs can be very informative. ;D
1822 In memory of Mary CHITTENDEN late of Brabourne. Relict of James GORHAM who died 28th of February 1838 in the 72nd year of her age. Also of Edward Andrew Chittenden son of James Chittenden and the above Mary who died 10th of March 1822 in the 22nd year of his age.
The parish records for Hinxhill may reveal more children as might Mary's will
Chittenden Mary Brabourne 1833 1838 PRC17/110/194 PRC16/543 C/4
http://www.kentarchaeology.ac/ekwills_a/series/ekp_p2/ekp_p2p_bou.htm
I have no connection with the GORHAM family - just helping another Rootschatter :D
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Hi bearkat, your quick and quality responses are appreciated, I have scanned your replies;how can I get access to the wills register over there? to check validity of more names and dates going back to 1692 also with bmd records.
I have the time and would have to check on line for this info; to your knowledge has anyone else done a family tree on this name and branch?, I have a family tree of another branch also from Kent/East Sussex who migrated to NSW in 1838 and am trying to find the link to bind these two branches together.
Thanks again for your very able assistance.
copper john
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The list of wills can be found here
http://www.kentarchaeology.ac/ekwills_a/series/ekp2_intro.html
Details of how to obtain a copy of a will can be found via this link
http://www.kentarchaeology.ac/ekwills_a/series/contacts2.html
You may find a GORHAM family tree if you search the internet.
Proving a link between branches of family trees can be quite difficult.
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Hi bearkat, thanks, will search the internet again, I have the christening date of James Gorham as 30/4/1786, is this the same as his birth date, it was fairly common practice to baptise on the birth day back then?.
Quite sad for Mary the mother; lost both a husband and son in their twenties.
copper john
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The christening date would probably not be the same as his date of birth, unless he was unwell and not likey to survive. Some vicars made a note of the date of birth but this is not recorded on the IGI/Familysearch. It's always worth trying to see a copy of the register to see if any extra information has been included.
Times were hard then, many people died young. It's frustrating that we can't find out what people died of prior to civil registration.
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Hi bearkat, is it possible to check out James' birth date records as I only have his bapt date? as 30/4/1786. If you feel inclined to: Another Gorham,
A Thomas Gorham church warden of Ewhurst Sx bap1633? Salehurst m (1) Jane? (2) Constance Barnes of Seddlescomb 29/4/1678 eldest son by Jane was a John Gorham yeoman of Fairlight Sx churchwarden at Ewhurst b c 1666 m Elizabeth Barnes (dtr of Constance Barnes). bur 21/5/1740 Will 1740 lived Winterstowe farm fairlight Sx.
A query, it looks like the eldest son John married his half sister Elizabeth?, this is where I think my line separated from another tree, also now in Australia in NSW.what do you think?
cheers copper john
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It is unlikey that you will find a date of birth but someone may have acces to the parish records or a transcription.
Re you Sussex query, it may be better to make a separate post on the Sussex board where you will find people with knowledge of local records.
It would have been improper to marry your half-sister though. :o
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Hi bearkat, thanks for your suggestion, I have just emailed a request off to Sussex for assistance, many thanks for yours, been a great help.
cheers copper john
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Hi John
Dont know if i read your thread properly,but hope this helps
From the Sussex Marriage Index
29 April 1688 at Whatlington
Thomas Gorham & Constance Barnes
Extra info,Thomas from Ewhurst
Constance,A Widow from Sedlescombe
Kind regards
omega
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Back again
From SMI
Married at Ashburnham,East Sussex
24 May 1692
Elizabeth Barnes & John Gorham
Extra info,Elizabeth from Ewhurst
Will see what else i can find out
Kind Regards
omega
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Hi John
I have found a Baptisum for Elizabeth Barnes on SFHG database.
Baptised at Sedlescombe 22 Dec 1672 daughter of John & Constance
Annoyingly i cant find a marriage on SMI.
Kind Regards
omega
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Hi omega, thanks for your quick response, it's almost my bedtime so I can't keep with you now but will read with interest tomorrow, Ive also another John Gorham b 1693 Ewhurst m Sarah Parnell 1717 at Winchelsea who maybe John and Elizabeths son?. cheers copper john from down under
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Hope them Ancestors dont keep you awake :)
omega(From Sunny Sussex)
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Hi John
Children of John & Elizabeth at Ewhurst
JOHN Born & Baptised the same day
26 Mar 1693
Thomas,Born & Baptised same day
19 Nov 1695
Henry Born 5 June 1703,Baptised 1st July 1703
Extra info,Dad a Yeoman.
Kind Regards
omega :)
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Hi omega 1,while Iv'e been sleeping looks like you've been busy-good work!. I am a vol guide at the Fremantle Maritime museum so off for a few hours for that.
will wait for the extras you may dig up and still very interested with the two marriages of Thomas of Ewhurst bap 1633? Salehurst and m (1)Jane?
then (2) Constance Barnes of Sedlescombe 29.4.1687.
looks like the first son John from the m of Thomas and Jane then married the daughter of Thomas' 2nd wife Constance (naughty in those days)what can you dig up?
cheers copper john
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Hi copper john
Your Guide job sounds interesting :)
Sorry,there is no marriage listed on the SMI for Thomas & Jane,it could be the PRs did`nt survive.
The marriage info i gave you for Thomas & Constance has 2 referances.1,they applied for a marriage Licence at Lewes & Married same day.Extra info Thomas a Widower.
While looking at Burials regarding your Gorham family,i came across something i personly have never seen before.
This is very very sad :'(
Babies of John & Elizabeth buried at Ewhurst
Baby Gorham, 4 Dec 1694, Stillborn child of John
Baby Gorham,18 Feb 1698
Deadborn Daughter of John & Elizabeth (d 14-2 )
Baby Gorham,23 Oct 1699
Deadborn Son of John & Elizabeth,( d 10-10 )
It does sound like half Sibling married.I have found Incest on one of Husbands lines. :o.
If i find any more tit bits will be in touch
Kind Regards
omega
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Back Again :)
Could these be yours ?
Children of Thomas & Jane Goreham ,Baptised at Ewhurst
Thomas,29 June 1681
Ann,19 Apr 1683
Elizabeth,24 Oct 1684
Janey,14 Dec 1685
Seems Jane died as a result of Child Birth :(
Buried 17 Dec 1685
Jane wife of Thomas.
As Ewhurst is on the Kent border,its possible Thomas & Jane married there
Kind regards
omega
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hi omega,as you say very sad re the stilborn children, have you found out the maiden name of Jane when she married Thomas?.
The names and dates of Thomas and Jane children match the names and dates of another branch of the Gorham tree that now are in NSW Australia having migrated here in 1838, I have been searching for my branch intersection for some time and this may be it!.
There is yet another branch of Gorham's surfaced on the matriarchs side and the connection is not clear here either --but-- all of them lived around the Sx/Kent border and across to Ashford area.I shall need to sit down and digest all this extra info, you and bearkat have exceeded my early expectations, what else is tucked away???,
cheers copper john. ps 2 bleedin degrees here tonight
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Hi John
There is no marriage listed for Thomas & Jane even using various spellings.
Just an idea.As Ewhurst is on the Kent border i wonder if they married there ?
Kind regards
omega (to hot for me in Sussex)
Did you taken a Hot Water Bottle to bed ;D
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There is a GORHAM family pedigree deposited with the East Sussex Archives
Gorham family pedigree HOP/3,4 Nd
search A2a
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/advanced-search.aspx?tab=1
put East Sussex in the repository box
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There is a will for Thomas GORHAM of Ewhurst dated 1690 on The National Archives documentsonline
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0e4f/
You can download a copy for £3.50
Use the website to search for variants of the surname - GOREHAM, GORGHAM, GORRAM etc
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hi bearkat, many thanks for you're keeping an eye on what I'm doing, I have just emailed to East Sx records for the Gorham pedigree, be interesting on what comes back.
Th sx contact helping me omega 1, posted a query yesterday at 12:27:23, are you able to follow up please and check out via Kent records and advise.re the cold; it only lasts a short while here 6-8 weeks then it warms up again for 9 months so only having a whinge, as you do!.
cheers copper john
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Finding a link between the GORHAM families may be quite a challenge, The area between Fairlight and Ashford covers many parishes in 2 different counties.
Some records have been transcribed and are on-line but many aren't.
Rootschatters can post what they find but you may have to search many parish records, wills, monumental inscriptions etc to help sort out this family.
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Hi bearkat and omega, sorry gents, I wrongly advised that Thomas of Ewhurst had issue with Jane ?, perhaps not?,typed notes from elsewhere show that Thomas with wife (1) Jane then (2) Constance had 6 children with the only mention of whom begat whom as Constance who gave birth to Elizabeth whom the eldest son John then married, so I am not sure of the others and who was the mother but inclined to agree that they were from Constance, as Jane had a history of having stillborn children.
It's now getting very complicated and time for a nice red!!.
cheers copper john
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Hi john
I`m an old gal :)
Bit early to join in a class or 2 of red :)
Will see if i can find anything else & have a Think
omega :)
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hi omega, in an earlier reply on 05 july you gave the surname of Jane as Goreham ? was this her maiden name in the old script or a typo by you?, you also mention incest with a husbands line-can you please elaborate.
Will check on Thomas' will asap.
still cold and wet here,
copper john
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Hi John
Jane Goreham was her married name.
Regarding the Incest.I SHOULD have said i found it in my Husbands line.Brother & Sister living together ( in a Tent,Travellers)on 1851 census with a son.By 1861 she is on her own & goodness knows where he went,still looking.She never married but had more children.
Sorry if i confused you.
Lovely & sunny here
omega
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Hi Copper John
I have the Andrews family tree going back to 1580 and they all came from Kent and in particular Braebourne and Hinxshill. The Andrews and the Chittenden's intermarried a bit. I would be interested to know if you found out the parents of the Mary Andrews. The one I am looking at is Mary Andrews b. 12 May 1766 and the parents were Martha Chittenden and Thomas Andrews.
Regards
Roger Andrews
Sydney
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Hi Roger, I have a Mary Andrews born 1766 m my James Gorham 26/3/1786 Hinxhill had 2 children James and Hester. James sen died 26/6/1791 aged 24.
Mary remarried a James Chittenden and died at 72 yrs 28/2/1838 had a son Edward Albert Chittenden who died 10/3/1822 22yrs, it's probable Mary had more children but I have not checked.
Most of this info is from Bearkat on previous chats to me, there are will sites in Kent also church sites that may help, I can forward if you want as they are on this site 29/6/11.
I have no info on any of the mothers line only the fathers which is tough enough but will pass on info if I uncover any, good luck cobber!
Regards
copper John Perth WA
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Hi Roger, more on Mary Andrews & parents, a headstone in the St Mary Church Hinxhill reads:
a "skull and crossed bones engraved in centre top. a spade & pickaxe are engraved on either side at the top".
in memory of Thomas Andrews who died 18/1/1773 aged 72 yrs also Martha wife of the above died 9/9/1789 aged 62yrs left issue one son & two daughters viz: Chittenden, Martha and Mary.
Thomas and Martha may well be Mary's parents as the dates fit. On my ancestral line James Gorham who married Mary Andrews, Jame's parents were also named James and Mary, it's not easy Roger!.Hope this helps you, '.
Cheers copper John
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Hi copper john,
I've just been reading through your topic of Gorham Name and seems interesting as i am an ancestor of gorhams, and some of the names that you have come up with match with some of my ancestry line. I belong to James Gorham Born in 1813 who married Jane A. Jarman on 21 Apr
1837 in Wittersham, KEN, ENG. I am situated in Cowra, NSW. I don't know which part of the Gorham tree you are situated, you sound like a long lost relative of some description along the gorham line i have a book of Gorhams "On Gunnary Creek" which has my gorham family history which gives a lot of tree history. If u would like some more information on this part of the Gorham line I am happy 2 help out in any way.
Cheers Troy
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Hi Troy, yes we are cousins, I have been in touch with the author of your book who has been very helpfull with my research;if you go to page 10 of the book my branch stems from John and Elizabeth Barnes. The trail goes through East Sussex into Ashford in Kent then into London with a James Gorham who became clock/watchmaker to the Queen and Royal Family circa 1820-50, his son James joined him in Kensington ,sadly they both died in 1856 and are buried in the same grave at the Kensal Green Cemetery.am having difficulty confirming and naming Jame's wife. A few more generations and a move to Essex for a while then my dad also John migrated to WA in 1952 with the family of 5, I am the eldest son from this branch, now 74yrs have 3 sons and 5 grandchildren all here around Perth.
cheers copper john, pls let me know if I can help further.
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Hello All!
I am also a GORHAM descendent. I live in Queensland, Australia. I have only just recently started to research this line.
This is where I am up to so far.
JAMES GORHAM b. 1718 Warbleton, Sussex ( parents JOHN GORHAM and SARAH?) m MARY? JAMES and MARY moved to Sevington, Kent
children
1. MARY GORHAM b. 1747 Warbleton m. THOMAS BARTEN 1767 at Sevington
2. SARAH GORHAM b. 1749 Kent m. THOMAS BARNARD 1777 Ashford
3. ELIZABETH GORHAM b. 1750 kENT m. SAMUEL BARNARD 1776 Ashford
4. SUSANNA GORHAM b. 1753 Kent m. THOMAS WILLIS 1774 Ashford
5. ESTER GORHAM b. 1755 Kent m. STEPHEN SILLIBOURNE 1779 at Sevington ( MY LINE)
6. JOHN GORHAM b. 1758 Kent m. MARY RICKMAN d. 1806 Willesborough
7. ANN GORHAM b. 1760 Kent m. JOSHUA RICKMAN 1783 at Ashford
8. JAMES GORHAM b. 1767 Kent m. MARY ANDREWS 1786 at Hinxhill d, 1791 at Aldington
The problem seems to be that they were Quakers, so the records are sketchy. I was able to get quite a few records from the non parochial BDM site. Also I have transcribed the wills of JAMES GORHAM of Sevington, Samuel Barnard and Thomas Barnard. They are available to view on the site www. willtranscriptions.co.uk. Peter has a great sit there. I will also upload the will of CALEB RICKMAN ( father of MARY RICKMAN and JOSHUA RICKMAN) in a day or so. I hope this helps someone, also I hope to hear of some of you, as it looks like we are related.
Regards
Lorayne
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Hi Lorayne, I have a fair amount of "Gorham" ancestry, my line is from #8 on your list-James and Mary, this line goes back to 1633 with a Thomas and Constance Barnes, all lived in Kent around that time.
There is a family of Gorhams who migrated to NSW in 1838 and a really great book called "On Gunnery Creek" author Desmond Gorham living in NSW (you can order a copy) I have the contacts if you need.
The origin of the Gorham name can be traced back to France and there is a murmer of fuzzy logic that the name goes back further to the Vikings!.
Please let me know how I can help further as I am still searching. ie a branch of Gorhams migrated to America and became silversmiths, they produced:The Davis Cup, The Americas Cup,Indy 500 Cup and Airforce One has Gorham silver tableware for the US President and staff.CJohn
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Hi Lorayne, I apologise for not completing my response: I was born in Essex UK 1937(near London) then after WW2 war in 1952 the whole family migrated to WA. Both parents were divorced and remarried in 1950 so the family was now:step mum Margaret and a step brother John, step sister Diane plus my dad John,son John (me) and a sister Valerie, in 1951 another half sister Peggy was born, so three Johns arrived in Fremantle and started a new life here.
Sadly mum and dad have passed on but the rest of the family are all here in WA and get on fine, as the retired & eldest I am trying to put the "gorham" ancestry line together for posterity which is fun and equally frustrating at times, cheers and good researching,best regards, copper John Perth WA
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Hi Copper John
I see from the from the conversations with Lorayne that you are a descendant of James Gorham and Mary ANDREWS therefore you are a distant cousin of mine having shared the ancestor of Edward Andrews b 1580, Do you have any details of the Andrews side of the family? I would happy to supply you with a copy of the Andrews family tree should you wish.
Regards
Roger
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Hi Roger, what a pleasant surprise re Mary Andrews-you must be a mind reader as she was to be next on my list for followup,since I found out about her early and first marriage to James Gorham which only lasted a couple of years before she was widowed(maybe James died in an accident).
Yes please Roger, if it's not too much trouble I would like a copy of her ancestry, is there any way that I can reciprocate?.
Best regards,
copper John.
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I have from the Hinxhill, Kent headstone that James GORHAM late of Aldington died 26 June 1791 aged 24. Left issue by Mary his wife two children viz James and Hester. I understand that his wife was Mary Andrews and I think that she was the daughter of Martha Andrews(nee Chittenden) and Thomas Andrews. From what I understand she later married a Chittenden. I have copies of hand written correspondence of Martha Andrews 1727-1789 wherein she mentions James Gorham amongst other correspondence. The problem is that the same names repeat themselves from one generation. I had this sort of confirmed by a cousin of a cousin of mine in the UK. If you would like to contact me regarding a copy of the Andrews family tree being descendants of Edward and Alice Andrews 1580 which is pretty accurate my email address is listed below.
Regards
Roger Andrews
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Hello to all
I am interested in exploring some links with the Andrews and Chittenden families of Hinxhill.
For example Daniel Chittenden married Sarah Pilcher at St James, Dover in 1791
She was born in Cheriton, Kent in 1764. The marriage record says that Daniel was also from Cheriton, however I think he was not born there.
When I search Kent for a Daniel Chittenden born between 1750 and 1770, I came up with one answer:
Daniel Chittenden, christened 24 August 1760 in Hinxhill, Kent, the son of John Chittenden and Mary Mabourne.
I am aware that the Chittendens and Andrews of Hinxhill intermarried quite a lot during the mid 18C but I am not sure where this Daniel might fit in. I would appreciate any guidance here.
Also interested in any extended family links with Pilchers, Burvills and Hyders
Hoping you can help
Regards
Chris Arnold
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Hi roipolloi, I have searched what I have and cannot help-you are correct in that Ashford in Kent is the epicentre of the people you seek so perhaps a visit to the Kent family archives would be a good starting point. I have a fair amount of Andrews/Gorham info from this region but am mainly researching the Gorham male line to see where it leads,so far back to 1600's in Kent/Sussex.
I do have reference to some Chittendens/Andrews but no Daniels have have surfaced-this info from a Roger Andrews Sydney Australia who has a thorough research back to 1580, refer these pages.
Best regards, copper john.
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Thank you very much for your reply
The reference to the Daniels -- or lack of them-- is in itself helpful
I am --like Roger--from oz, so cannot quite get easily to the Kent archives
But I would like to do so and visit the Dover cliffs
Cheers
Chris
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Hi roipolloi, since I replied to you Roger Andrews from Sydney has replied to me (phone) as I am in Perth WA. I turns out that your Daniel Chittenden was my Mary Andrews grandfather!!!. so we are cousins!.
Roger will be pleased to hear from you as he has more info from that period, if you can get in touch with me through Rootschat Personal Folders I will forward Rogers contact details to you willingly.
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I am finding it difficult to negotiate this system of getting feedback
can you simply put up trees or not
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so we are cousins!
How exciting!!
Roipolli, I am just going to send you a PM (Personal Message) with some help on how you can exchange personal details :)
Sarah
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Hi Lorayne, I have a fair amount of "Gorham" ancestry, my line is from #8 on your list-James and Mary, this line goes back to 1633 with a Thomas and Constance Barnes, all lived in Kent around that time.
There is a family of Gorhams who migrated to NSW in 1838 and a really great book called "On Gunnery Creek" author Desmond Gorham living in NSW (you can order a copy) I have the contacts if you need.
The origin of the Gorham name can be traced back to France and there is a murmer of fuzzy logic that the name goes back further to the Vikings!.
Please let me know how I can help further as I am still searching. ie a branch of Gorhams migrated to America and became silversmiths, they produced:The Davis Cup, The Americas Cup,Indy 500 Cup and Airforce One has Gorham silver tableware for the US President and staff.CJohn
Hi copper john
I'm desperately looking to track down a copy of 'On Gunnery Creek'. My family got a copy at the reunion but it has since been lost during a move. Your post is the closest I've come to tracking down a new copy.
Could you please forward me the contact details you mention in your post. I'll be forever grateful.
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Hi Lorayne, happy to oblige you, here is the email address of Desmond Gorham the author of the very thorough Gorham Family book- On Gunnery Creek.
desandkaye@bigpond
I am sure Des will assist you in obtaining a copy of his book.
Cheers,
Copperjohn.
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I am reaching out to Lorayne, as I just recently learned that the "Sarah" who married Thomas Barnard was Sarah Gorham, in 1777. As a descendant of Thomas Barnard, I was/am very interested in reading the wills for Barnards/Gorham to learn more about both families, but the www.willtranscriptions.co.uk website where these were posted seems to be no longer.
Lorayne, are these transcriptions available anywhere else? I do have the will of Thomas Barnard (June 1804), but not fully transcribed. It appears Samuel/Elizabeth and Thomas/Sarah stayed close, and that Elizabeth was at the births of many of the children of Thomas/Sarah, based on records from St Martin-in-the-Fields, Westminster, London.
Thanks in advance for any assistance you might provide for either the Barnard or Gorham ancestry prior to Thomas/Sarah and Samuel/Elizabeth.
Best, Mark
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Dear Mark
Did I reply to you regarding the Barnard Wills? The Will transcription site is no longer online, but I am happy to send you the transcribed wills via P.M.
Regards
Lorayne