Any Poor Law Relief experts?

[maggbill]

Any Northern Ireland experts out there?
Sorry to be resurrecting this story again, but forgive me if I have asked and been given the information re Northern Ireland Poor Law relief application records.

Need to check for ancestor Jane Kenny (Ms McNab) who could have applied for Poor Law relief in County Tyrone (her birth area) - some time between 1867 and 1872.   Have tried to do a search on PRONI for these type of records... but can't figure out their site - keep coming up with articles about Poor Law Records, but can't figure out how to search for them?

again, my sincere apologies if I have already asked and been told how to do this!!  Help is much appreciated!
Maggs

[MonicaL]

Hi Maggs

Similarly to Scotland/Lanarkshire area, sounds like these types of searches for NI have to be personal searches.

Some info here www.proni.gov.uk/your_family_tree_series_-_13_-_poor_law_records.pdf

See also here for background www.workhouses.org.uk/Ireland/

Monica 

ps: This question is likely better placed on the NI RC board...so that people with experience there can comment best.

[maggbill]

Thanks for the link Monica, and also to ?moderator for moving this query to Ireland General.

I am thinking that the only way I can find if my Jane Kenny (McNab) made a Poor Law Application when she revisited Ireland is to email PRONI and ask if they will do a search (I live in Australia).  I cannot find any other option on their website.

Have spent ages this afternoon, working out her "residences" timeline from a Poor Law application she made in Glasgow in 1872, and from that I can now say that the time frame I am looking for her stay back in Ireland would have been late 1870 till late 1871.  She came originally from Longfield, County Tyrone so presume any PL application would be there, and not Tipperary where she and her soldier husband got married and she had her child - she wouldn't have stayed in Tipperary for much more than 18 months or so in total .... not enough for "settlement". 
So - will email PRONI and hope for the best?

[kingskerswell]

Hi,
    Unlike England, the Poor Law Ireland act did not restrict applicants to only get aid from their own parish. Thus there was no Removal Order system in Ireland. Thus Jane Kenny could have applied for aid anywhere in Ireland and it was up to  the local workhouse Guardians whether it was granted or not.

Regards

[Elwyn Soutter]

She came originally from Longfield, County Tyrone so presume any PL application would be there, and not Tipperary where she and her soldier husband got married and she had her child - she wouldn't have stayed in Tipperary for much more than 18 months or so in total .... not enough for "settlement". 
So - will email PRONI and hope for the best?

The parish of Longfield East is in the Poor Law Union of Omagh. Longfield West is in Castlederg. So those would be the two sets of records to focus on in Northern Ireland.

The Poor Law records there are on microfilm (and cannot be accessed on-line) so as has been said, a personal visit is required. PRONI may look them up for you, but check the cost first. They charge something like £16 for every 15 minutes work.

[maggbill]

Hi Kingkerswell and Elwyn,

Thank you both for your contributions.  Hmm.. Every time I find anything about this ancestor, it just generates more and more questions.
Re the Poor Law Ireland - not being restricted to a specific parish... means she could have gone anywhere (Co. Tyrone, Tipperary and Limerick being options)... So, does this mean that PRONI only does the Co. Tyrone records?  Would I have to contact the equivalent Dept. in Eire for the other two areas?
Which then brings me to the other question of the records not being online, and if PRONI have to search for me, it could cost a fortune. 
It is one of those pieces of the jigsaw which could help break down my main "Brickwall"..  the Irish origins of my main branch...  Who knows, - one day???

[Sonas]

Hi,
    Unlike England, the Poor Law Ireland act did not restrict applicants to only get aid from their own parish. Thus there was no Removal Order system in Ireland. Thus Jane Kenny could have applied for aid anywhere in Ireland and it was up to  the local workhouse Guardians whether it was granted or not.

Regards

I've seen references in Board of Guardian minute books to people being refused assistance as they were not of the poor law union in question. I don't know though if this was just local practice or if the refusal had a legislative basis. Is there a legislative basis for the statement that aid decisions were up to to Boards in receipt of applications?

[kingskerswell]

Hi,
   See reply No. 10 http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Ireland/ This is my understanding of the workhouse system in Ireland. In the years 1846 - 1850 ( famine) there was massive pressure on the workhouse system so guardians may very well have been very selective on who was admitted.

Regards

[Sonas]

Thanks Kingskerswell. Just did some quick Googling. There does seem to have been basis for refusal in Ireland, early on at least in the Poor Law regime:
'Provided always, that in any case where there may not be sufficient accommodation for the relief of all the persons applying for relief whom the guardians shall deem to be destitute poor, the guardians shall relieve such of the said persons as may be resident in the union before or in preference to those who may not be so resident.' From Section 41, Poor Law (Ireland) Act, 1838 http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1838/en/act/pub/0056/print.html