Question specifically re Glendermott C of I birth records mid 1800s

[scotmum]

Has anyone used the records of Glendermott C of I from this timescale? If you have, I was wondering if you noticed whether or not they usually recorded the mother's surname on a birth entry?

I have a couple married at Holy Trinity C of I, Cumber Lower in 1856, named John Henderson and Sarah Gallagher. Holy Trinity was known to be associated with the bride's family and so fits with tradition of marrying in bride's church.  Anyhow, before moving to Scotland in early 1860s, they had three sons, John c1856/7, William c1858/9 and David c1861.

Having previously had no success finding their births in various online resources including rootsireland, I decided to try again on rootsireland. Having previously used the 'parent search method' and both parents forename/surname (and the various known local spellings of Gallagher - also tried Mitchell and variants, as this was Sarah's mum's maiden name and Sarah was sometimes recorded as 'Sarah Miltchell or Gallagher' ), I decided this time to see if there were any births in the Londonderry area 5 years either side of 1857 to any couple/s with names John Henderson and Sarah _______ (I appreciate this could mean either no surname was recorded or, a surname other than Gallagher or variations was recorded).

By coincidence or otherwise (I am hopeful it is the latter), there were only three births returned, these being a John 1857, William 1859 and David 1861. By process of elimination, I was able to establish that all three were recorded at Glendermott C of I.

So, back to original question to help me consider if these entries are a possible 'red herring' or it is indeed worthwhile pursuing the Glendermott records, has anyone used them on microfilm or otherwise for this timescale and did you notice if it was usual for the mother's surname to be omitted (I have used various other church records from timescale and mother's surname was normally recorded)?

Thanks, in anticipation, for any comment on Glendermott's usual method of recording.



note:  see old post http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=17706.0

Although since proven to have taken place in Lower Cumber C of I, on some of the birth records for John Henderson and Sarah Gallagher's Scottish born children, their marriage is recorded as having been at 'Glondermont' (probably the writer's hearing of 'Glendermott' and close to the other known name for the area of 'Clondermot'). I had actually forgotten about this until after posting about Glendermott C of I above - so perhaps this in itself is enough encouragement for me to pursue the Glendermott  C of I births.

[gaffy]

Don't know if peculiar to this church, but I've seen the mother's married surname used in some church baptism records generally (which is infuriating).  If you stick "Henderson" in mother's surname in this case, all three records come back. 

[scotmum]

Don't know if peculiar to this church, but I've seen the mother's married surname used in some church baptism records generally (which is infuriating).  If you stick "Henderson" in mother's surname in this case, all three records come back.

Thanks, gaffy. Doh! Silly me....I usually try that as a possibility and in my 'excitement' at the potential finds, didn't. And yes, I too have seen that happen, so should have thought about it. Thanks for lending a 'fresh brain' to the equation.

Only trouble now is, if they did put her married name on the church records, I still won't be able to prove it is the right group (albeit it does seem likely they are) without some further clues - methinks I really do need to see Glendermott records, and not just for these births but for other Henderson entries too. And roll on the arrival of the 'scotlandspeole style' GRONI records online, so I can purchase (cheaper than other options) the actual 1856 marriage record for John and Sarah and hope it records his townland (especially if it happens to be a Clondermot one - wouldn't that be wonderful). Pity the births missed Civil Registration.

This is already opening up some new possibilities to part of the line that was at the 'brick wall' stage. Another researcher had tempted me closer to the Dungiven area for the Hendersons, but now, considering Clondermot and re-checking Griffiths Valuation, and Revision Books, there encouragingly was a John Henderson listed at property 6a Clooney, Clondermot and an Elizabeth Henderson at 6b.  There was also a John Henderson in Clondermot at 1831. The John who married Sarah had known parents John and Betsy Henderson. Betsy was nee Adams and I see Griffiths also have Adams families in Clondermot, albeit not in Clooney itself. Again, could all be wish-full thinking on my part, but certainly a coincidence worth pursuing further.

Various changes on the Revision Books from c1868 to mid 1870s involving property 6a and b (bit hard to see exactly which date goes with which change, even given the colours used, as so many), so likely need to find deaths for John and Elizabeth. A few possibiities on Civil Index at FindMyPast, but in Magherafelt and Ballymoney district. I think Clooney did come under Magherafelt district for a time, but need to check further to see if Ballymoney would also have been a likelihood for registering a death from Clooney. Certainly, this possibility is sounding a bit closer to another researcher's 'word of mouth handed down' family 'knowledge' that John (husband of Betsy, and likely Sea Captain) 'may have been buried between Limavady and Dungiven' (a relative of the other researcher, a great uncle I think, had apparently visited the grave at some time, but no firmer details of location could be recalled).

I am also re-visiting the possibility of John (husband of Betsy) having been a 'captain' and worked 'between Larne and Stranraer' - again passed to me from a researcher whose side of the family had passed this 'knowledge' down by 'word of mouth', but then also found by me as  'Sea Captain', recorded on the death certificate I have for John (husband of Sarah). For some reason I had previously thought of 'Larne to Glasgow' route and investigated that over the years, but now see from this article I found today http://www.derryjournal.com/news/your-community/nostalgia/scotch-boat-collision-on-the-foyle-1-3617453 that there were regular passenger ferries on the Londonderry - Glasgow route in the right timescale, so more investigation needed, as a route from Londonderry would seem more likely for someone who apparently was himself from the Londonderry area.

Isn't if great when you re-visit a line and old research and see new possibilities that you might have missed previously! No wonder I always say to folks to write down all possibilities and thoughts and keep them with other research, then re-visit same at intervals, as you never know what you might 'see' differently or better still, what newer online sources might be available that weren't previously (and why I answered my husband recently 'but they are my thoughts from the time/s I researched previously and I might see something different in them at a  later date', when he asked why I had thousands so many hand scribbled written notes and arrows in my family history files  ).

[scotmum]

Mmmm...having just once again checked wills on PRONI, there is one for a John Henderson of Clooney House, but he was,  according to the will, a Navy Commander (Death Notices say Captain, Royal Navy' ) - and the will mentions his 'sister Elizabeth Henderson of 'Clooney Cottage, and a nephew, Fitzhugh Bathurst Henderson, in London'.....and one for an Elizabeth Henderson, Clooney, Waterside, but she was a spinster (and the sister the John of Clooney House mentioned).  This John also gave instructions in the will for five pounds to be given to the Rector of the Parish of Bovevagh for 'reading the funeral service over my remains in the old churchyard of Dungiven'.

So, back to the drawing board re John and Betsy Henderson, as it would now seem the John and Elizabeth of the wills, are those who were in Griffiths and Revision books for Clooney.

[scotmum]

Now know that Glendermott C of I records of timescale did not, as standard, include the mother's maiden name. There is one column for forenames of parents ( eg John + Sarah) and one column for surname (eg Henderson), in which is recorded, mainly, the male surname only.

Ah well, at least they did include townland. Lismacarol, in this instance, and it was consistent across all three births.

Moderator - kindly mark thread as completed, thanks.

[NaomiM]

Hi Scotsmum,

It seems we share a link through David Henderson of John and Sarah Henderson. David is my Gr.gr grandad. only just started my family tree on my fathers side. would loev to see if you have any further details reagrdaing John and Sarah and indeed John's parents, John and Betsy?

Thank you

[scotmum]

Hello, welcome to Rootschat and Happy New Year!

If you make a further two posts, either on this thread or others, you can then receive and send Private Messages (particularly useful if you want to mention living persons, as you cannot do that on the main threads).

I have years of research on David's line and the lines of some of his siblings, children etc., so will hopefully be able to give you some help. Which of David's children are you descended from (and to which wife, as he repeated some first names when he and his second wife had children, after his first wife died)?

[NaomiM]

Happy New Year to you too Scotmum!!!

Already you have given me some new information (I did not realise David had been married twice, but it absolutely now makes sense) David married Sarah Mitchell and had Sarah, John Mitchell and Robert Henderson. Robert was my great grandfather. Super excited to see what I can learn.

Thank you

[NaomiM]

For the sake of making a new post...do you have further information pertaining to their travels from Ireland?