James Brown of Perth and Dundee

[MonicaL]

Some financial issues its seems towards the later years of his life, www.thegazette.co.uk/Edinburgh/issue/6936/page/1135

Monica

[Millmoor]

Monica
This may be a different James Brown! There are lots of articles re bankruptcy in the Dundee papers in 1859 and 1860. In spite of my inability to penetrate the legalese in the articles there is a huge amount of detail - it went to the Court of Session - and he is referred to as spirit dealer and ship owner. Brothers David and Joseph are referred to and it looks as though he died in 1859 at Holyrood and was married. Various addresses are given in winding up orders etc which would establish if the correct man or not. It makes interesting reading!

William

[ecksdochter]

Hello sunny51,
     Scotlandspeople has 3 James Brown deaths in Angus in 1861. 2 of them in Dundee, one of which is a match to 1784 birth. (The other 2 don't match when adding 1784 birth year (+/- 10yrs) meaning they are in a different age group to your James) Trying death year 1861-1863 & birth year 1784 +/- 5yrs still finds only one match in all of Angus. There is however one James Brown death in Perthshire in 1861, birth 1784 +/- 3yrs.
     Checking the above Angus death would use 6 Credits. (Would be expensive if you had a lot of 1861 James Brown deaths in Angus to check out) Hope he is your man!
          Regards,     Dod.

[GR2]

Dundee, Perth and Cupar Advertiser 18-1-1861.

At Craigie Cottage, Dundee, on the 16th inst., Mr.
James Brown, in his 77th year.

[sunny51]

Hi Everyone, thank you.
I checked out the James at nethergate on the census - he's not our man. Neither is the one referred to in Millmoors post.

Our James died 1861 Craiglea Dundee as in the gazette by GR2

He was also captured by the French and released as stated.
and Yes, the painting is of our James Brown.

Now, I had a bit of luck and received an email this morning from New Zealand. James married Ann ( no surname) born Steventon Ayrshire in 1810.
There are 6 children, 3 born Glasgow and 3 at Irvine Ayrshire. The children are with Anne on the 1851 and 1861 but James appears on the Dundee census separately.
One of the sons being John MacMillan Brown who is actually quite famous, but I don't want to go off track. I checked him out too and found some information but not a family tree.

I checked around for the marriage of James and Anne with the new information but at a first look, still cannot find it in all the likely spots mentioned.

Thanks everyone.

[ecksdochter]

Hello sunny51,
     James Brown died before the 1861 Census was taken on 7/8 April 1861.
          Regards,     Dod.

[sunny51]

Thank you Dod. James died on 16th January 1861 at Craiglea Cottage, Dundee.
Still searching for his burial and marriage to Anne.

Thanks everyone.

[Millmoor]

Hi

If I have located the correct Ann Brown in the 1841, 1851 and 1861 censuses then one of the children was called Jemima, born Glasgow 1840. There is a possible baptism on Family Search for Jemima naming parents as James Brown and Ann Brown. Could Ann's maiden name therefore have been Brown? I can see a marriage in 1829 in Ardossan, an Ayrshire port between James Brown and Ann Brown. There is also a birth in Stevenston, Ayrshire in Nov 1802 of Ann Bown with parents Frances Brown and Elizabeth Brown - the eldest son of Ann Brown is named Francis.

I note if I have googled correctly that James MacMillan Brown was educated in Irvine Ayrshire and was a celebrated academic, went to New Zealand and died in 1935. There is an entry in the England and Wales Probate Index for him but it states that he died overseas. It might be worth trawling through the wills in the New Zealand data set on Family Search for Christchurch.

I also note that the entry for James MacMillan Brown in a New Zealand states that he financed his own education as his father had experienced financial difficulties.

Have you actually located any census entries for James Brown in Dundee ? I cannot see one other than what has been previously suggested. I think the best way of confirming what you have is correct is to download the death in Dundee in 1861 and the subsequent will. Also the death of Ann Brown (there is one in Dundonald between 1861 and 1871) would  be worth following up as would the marriages and deaths of the children such as the aforementioned Jemima which would confirm the names of parents and mother's maiden name.

William

[sunny51]

Hi William, Yes, this is the correct family.
i.Elizabeth Brown, b. Abt. 1837, Irvine, Ayrshire, Scotland, d. 9 October 1915, Leura, Blue Mountains, NSW, Australia.
ii.Margaret Brown, d. date unknown.
iii.Anne Brown, d. date unknown.
iv.Daniel Brown, d. date unknown.
v.Jemima Brown, b. Abt. 1839, d. 1929, London.
viFrancis Brown, d. date unknown.
vii.John  Brown, b. 5 May 1845, Irvine, Scotland (possibly 1847 -see more), d. 18 January 1935, New Zealand.
viii James Brown, d. date unknown

further info
Elizabeth Brown C F 28 Dec 1842 parents James Brown & Ann Brown

John Brown C M 21 May 1845 parents James Brown & Ann Brown

James Brown C M 12 May 1847 parents James Brown & Ann Brown

Many thanks William, I'll check out the other items mentioned, You may well be right about Ann's surname. and yes, The son John Macmillan Brown is famous in New Zealand. But Macmillan is, I believe, added to his name by himself and not referring to immediate family links but rather to the clan. Thank you.