PRATT/PIDDINGTON family NSW

[woodydog]

Hello all and happy christmas
I'm trying to find out if a place/farm still exists that my two great Uncles used to live and work.
Most details are taken from James Pratt AIF records but also from listings in directories......
The name of the house/farm is Wheatleigh (also spelt Wheatley), Gubbata, NSW. I believe that the nearest town is Peak Hill. James died as a prisoner of war in WW2 and his wife died  a year and 2 months before him on 4 Nov 1942 ( he was declared missing in April of 1942) .I would really like to find out if this place still exists or if it's name has changed so that I can give my dad some more information on his Uncle or even better show him a photograph especially as James used to live in a small place near Halifax ,West Yorkshire called Wheatley. James wife was Lily, maiden name Piddington. James brother (Arthur Pratt) married Lily's sister (Violet Piddington)if that helps any. I have details on their births,marriages and deaths already but it would be fantastic if I could find out more about Wheatleigh/Wheatley.
Many thanks for taking the time to read this and I'll keep my fingers crossed
Woodydog

[majm]

Hi there Woodydog,

Hoping the following helps your searching for Gubbata 

I think Gubbata was about half way between Lake Cargelligo and West Wyalong, on the Ungarie Road.  In the 1940's the address could have been written as Gubbata via Ungarie.  Peak Hill is further north-east, at a guess around 150 miles distant.  Nearest to Gubbata could be Griffith to the south-west or Forbes to the north-east.

West Wyalong has a museum, I think, set up and run by volunteers (several years since I passed through there). 

There's an indexed registration of a Lily Pratt's death in 1942 (29294/1942) dau of Henry Charles and Rosa Marian.  This was registered at Peak Hill, suggesting her death occurred in that district.  Perhaps she was visiting.

Have you looked at the digitised newspapers online?  http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/home 

Keep those fingers crossed, I'll try to find some more clues as to how to track down the exact location of the property... 

I have had a quick look around the historic Electoral Rolls but I have not noticed Lily and James at the same address.

1943 NSW ER James Pratt, Wheatley, Gubbata, a farmer.  That's in the electorate of LACHLAN, in the sub-division of Cargelligo.   


Cheers,  JM

[Jamjar]

As luck would have it, I've just bought a house in Ungarie and will be up to look at it, first week of January. So, I can do some research. As far as I can see Gubbata no longer exists, as far as Google maps shows, but Gubbata Rd still does. West Wyalong is the closest large town.

Jamjar

[majm]

Hi,
Some info to help locate Gubbata:

From 1970’s map  http://parishmaps.lands.nsw.gov.au/pmap.html
Parish:  Blairgowrie;  County:  Dowling;  Land District:  Lake Cargelligo;   Shire:  Bland

Some thoughts to locate the property “exactly”...
The post code for Gubbata is 2669, so perhaps Council can give you email contact details for several real estate agents to see if any of them know of the property, or know of some old time locals who remember it. Here’s some links to land sales in NSW http://www.blandshire.nsw.gov.au/   That’s the website for the Bland Shire Council, perhaps you could also email their Librarian and ask for any information from their local studies holdings.  There’s a nine page heritage map on that website, which seems to show the boundaries for every rural property, alas though, none are given their own names.   http://www.blandshire.nsw.gov.au/DraftBland2011LocalEnvironmentalPlan/LEPMaps.aspx

Some snail mail addresses
West Wyalong Museum’s address is 16 Main St West Wyalong NSW 2671.
Bland Historical Society:  PO Box 299, West Wyalong, NSW, 2671.
Lake Cargelligo and District Historical Society:  PO Box 117, Lake Cargelligo, NSW, 2672
UNGARIE Historical Society:  PO Box 24, Ungarie, NSW, 2669.  This is the same postcode as Gubbata

I see from James Pratts records that he enlisted at West Wyalong, he was a Changi Prisoner of War, and among the many who did not return, so please mention this in any emails that you send out seeking information about the property, particularly if you are contacting local identities in the Gubbata area.  They may know of other families from that district who have info about residents who enlisted and became Changi prisoners at the Fall of Singapore (some 120,000 British, Indians and Australians were captured by Japanese)..  It was pivotal in the development of Australia as a nation, rather than as a dominion of Gt Britain. 
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/home  This is the link to the digitised online newspapers.  There are many newspapers that have not been digitised, but copies are held in various libraries, usually in the local district and also in the various state’s “State Library”, and of course in the National Library of Australia in Canberra.

Fingers crossed,

Cheers,  JM. 
RED POST ... Hi Jamjar, do you think the real estate agent could help find the property?

[woodydog]

Hello everyone,
Thank you so much for all your help and advice so far.... my little brain is trying to absorb it all
Here's a bit more information that I have found in attempt to narrow things down a bit (and to help me sort things out in my head!!)James Pratt - Married Lily Piddington 6th July 1932 at MUNGERY SCHOOL, he enlisted at West Wyalong in July 1940, his permanent address and that of his wife was given as Wheatley, Gubbata. I have his brother Arthur (with wife Violet Piddington) on the electoral rolls of 1936,1937 & 1943  at Wheatleigh,Griffith,Riverina, State of Murrumbidgee... Do you think this is the same as Wheatley noted as James address or a different one.. I'm getting very confused with all the districts, sub divisions etc,etc
In 1949 I have Arthur and Lillian at Dooragog, Tomingly, sub division of Peak Hill which is where I have Lily listed in 1936 & 1937  not with James but her Piddington family
In 1954 I think I have Arthur & Violet at Moondyne,Mungery,Tomingly but on my notes I've written Lillian instead of Violet (I think!) but they are with Gladstone Piddington (the Piddington sisters brother).
Are all these places in a reasonably small area? I'm finding it REALLY hard to tell from Googling
One last thing that confuses me ..Majm found James Pratt on the 1943 electoral roll listed at Wheatley but he died in Malaya on the 23/9/1943. Could it just be that the information was given in a previous year or is there another James Pratt living there??
I'll away to follow up some of your possible leads and hopefully unscramble my pommy brain 
Thank you ... all of you.....
Woodydog

[majm]

 

I will try to unconfuse ...

Firstly, Wheatleigh, at Griffith is not Wheatley at Gubbata ...

Back shortly with answers to other questions 
 
I've just phoned a rellie, a returned WWII chap, he was overseas for most of the War, and he is definitely on the NSW roll, I have confirmed with him the exact address that his parents and his siblings and his wife lived at in 1943, he and his wife are both listed at that address on the 1943 roll hence :
Secondly, the NSW ER for 1943, the entry for James PRATT at Wheatley, Gubbata, this should be your chap, there was not any major effort to ever remove from the rolls ANY of those who were serving during the war. 

Cheers,  JM

[woodydog]

Thanks majm, that's undone one little knot

[majm]

Google maps

Tip use the feature "Get Directions" select for A  Ungarie NSW and then at B you could select either Griffith or Peak Hill.  The answers should give you some idea of the distance.  I grew up "on the Lachlan" ... one of the rivers currently in flood in the central west of NSW.  The various names of villages and townships that I have mentioned are all very familiar to me.  We used to speak of distance in terms of the time it would take to get from one place to another, in a car on narrow rural roads. 

Edit to Add

Don't be offput by finding Lily at different address to James.  This may simply indicate that there were several properties involved, perhaps as share-farmers.  The electoral roll was (still is) something compulsory.   And at times, people appear to be separated, when in fact they were not.  I don't know of any online rolls for the local government (shire/municipality) but I do know that until more recent times, people could be enrolled in several shires/municipalities as they were ratepayers in more than one !  So, I speculate that perhaps James was the 'owner' of Wheatley at Gubbata, and that both couples were the joint owners at Peak Hill, and that Arthur and Violet were the owners at Griffith.  BUT that is simply speculation, and I have no way of 'proving' it. 


Second Edit 

"State of Murrumbidgee" ... you are looking at a combined Federal and State electoral Roll.  Federal = national, So the Feveral (Commonwealth of Australia) electorate was known as Riverina.  State = New South Wales, so that electorate was known as Murrumbidgee.  There are three levels of government.  Local (shire/municipality) they have only been using the Australian Electoral Commissions rolls for about 30 years, so NOT online, previously to that each Council (shire/municipality) was responsible for their own rolls (establish and maintain etc), then there's the various States with their own government, and then there's the National Government. 

PS, voting is compulsory in Australia 

[woodydog]

Now I'm getting a better idea of where things are 
Problem with me is that I'm not used to such great distances between places... if you're driving 300 miles from here everyone says " ohhh, you're not going that far are you? !"
And yes on the 1954 roll Arthur Pratt is listed as a share farmer at Moondyne with Violets brother listed as well... am I finally beginning to get the hang of this? What is/was a share farmer? A person who had a share in the property?
Have found when searching for Dooragog that the current farmers are a B.H & G.J. Piddington (listed as Peak Hill) have I got the guts to phone them to see if they're related to my lot? Have I hecky thump !!!