Author Topic: Joseph Rudd of Denton Norfolk 1800s  (Read 2889 times)

Offline scruffypup

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Joseph Rudd of Denton Norfolk 1800s
« on: Friday 03 January 14 17:55 GMT (UK) »
Any information regarding Joseph Rudd c1800 (possibly Topcroft  from 1851 census) Joseph married Mary Ann Lince at Lakenham 21 Oct 1823, they had a large family with baptisms all at Denton St Mary to Joseph Rudd labourer and Mary, 27 Jan 1828 John, 20 Jun 1830 Joseph, 21 Oct 1832 Anne, 10 Mar 1843 Eleanor (Aged 2 yrs and 3 mths) also 10 Mar 1843 Charlotte aged 5, 4 Aug 1844 James, 12 Oct 1851 Rachel (born 17 Apr 1835)

Joseph rudd died April 1868 buried May 2 1868, Mary possibly died 1872

I only found this family yesterday through researching on family history sites and help from Carole W on the Lincolnshire section here, following a Lincolnshire newspaper article 1863 regarding Joseph's bigamous son John Rudd using the alias John Lince (hubbys 3 x Gt Grandfather) so I am still trying to piece everything together, not been able to find parents for Joseph yet, on one family tree I have come across Mary Ann Lince as the daughter to James and Mary Ann Lince with a sibling Morffee still to be confirmed..

Online CaroleW

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Re: Joseph Rudd of Denton Norfolk 1800s
« Reply #1 on: Friday 03 January 14 18:04 GMT (UK) »
Will you please include the links to all the other posts about this family to avoid duplication of info and efforts

Here's the last one

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=672564.msg5176760#msg5176760

Did you check the 1851 for details of Mary Ann's birthplace

What birthplace is given for Joseph & Mary Ann in 1861
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)

Offline scruffypup

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Re: Joseph Rudd of Denton Norfolk 1800s
« Reply #2 on: Friday 03 January 14 18:35 GMT (UK) »
Hi Carole

sorry for not posting the link to the other post. I only had 30 mins in the library today to look at the Census returns thought I'd saved the images to read through later but as I'd zoomed in on them I didn't get the full picture saved had to delete them when I got back home I did save the text details but only for Joseph, I think I found a probate for him but will have to go back again to check.  I'm just working on the brief details I have for James Lince, he seems not to have married Mary Pike/Mary Ann Pyke and they did have a daughter Mary Ann Lince born 10 Oct 1799 and bapt on the 20th St Mary at Coslany, this would fit the census returns for Joseph and Mary as she does seem a little older than him and born c1799.  At least all the census returns are for Depwade/Denton so it should make it easier to find them next time.

Offline scruffypup

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Re: Joseph Rudd of Denton Norfolk 1800s
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 04 January 14 19:52 GMT (UK) »
I've been to the library and can confirm that Joseph Rudd is noted as being born in Topcroft on the 1851/61 Census returns, Mary Ann Lince/Rudd appears to have been born in Norwich, which fits with her birth to James Lince and Mary Ann Pyke.

James Lince appears to have been a woolcomber as noted on the 1841 census and in the 1820 poll book, on the same page are Benjamin and Morfee Lince also woolcombers in Norwich,  Morffee Lince married Ann Elliss 3 Feb 1788 at St Mary at Coslaney and Benjamin John Lince married Sarah Clements 17 Aug 1783 St Mary at Coslaney the same church where James's children were bapt (apart from his eldest child)and as James's son is called Morffee it would seem that there is a possiblity that James, Benjamin and Morffee could be brothers, not found any parents or births for them yet.


Offline The Yokel

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Re: Joseph Rudd of Denton Norfolk 1800s
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 04 January 14 21:31 GMT (UK) »
Hi
No sign of a Joseph Rudd (or any other Rudds) being baptised in Topcroft c1800, but there is a Joseph bap 26 Sept 1802 to Joseph and Charlotte Mudd (Watts)

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0xh0/

yokel

ps
Have you seen the Lince family on FreeREG
http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl

Offline scruffypup

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Re: Joseph Rudd of Denton Norfolk 1800s
« Reply #5 on: Monday 06 January 14 08:46 GMT (UK) »
Hi Yokel

Didn't get a notification of your post so please accept my apologies for not replying sooner, many thanks for the information it's most appreciated, I will check it out.  Joseph does have a daughter Charlotte and quite often family names do tend to reappear in later generations.

Regards
Julie

Offline scruffypup

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Re: Joseph Rudd of Denton Norfolk 1800s
« Reply #6 on: Monday 06 January 14 19:38 GMT (UK) »
Hi Yokel

I've been looking at the records for Mudd for Topcroft, it seems hard to imagine Joseph living with the surname Rudd yet being born Mudd but everything does seem to point to Joseph Mudd and Charlotte Watts/Watson being his parents (Joseph Mudd Topcroft bapt 26 Sept 1802) .  I had a look on familysearch and nobody else even close to Joseph Rudd for Topcroft born/bapt around 1799-1803, in 1851 he was 48 and in 1861 he was 60 according to the census returns?, he was buried in Denton April 1868 aged 68.

If he does turn out to be Joseph Mudd's son that would be very useful as I have found parents for Joseph Mudd Snr, he was born in 1770 Topcroft to William Mudd and Ann Symmonds.

Now here is the one important thing I need to check, that there are no other Rudd families around Denton and Topcroft.  I know that for St Mary Denton where Joseph Rudd's children were bapt there were no other Rudd families around. I'm still checking other churches in the locality to see if there were any other Rudd families around but not found any so far.

Offline MickTilley

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Re: Joseph Rudd of Denton Norfolk 1800s
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 14 January 14 13:04 GMT (UK) »
Joseph Rudd died of consumption on 27th April 1868.  His wife Mary Ann (nee Lince) died on 5th April 1872.  Joseph was my ggg grandfather via his son Joseph (who married Maria Hudson in 1856).  I have more details regarding his descendants but I'd never been able to find out what happened to John Rudd after his stay in the Depwade Union workhouse in 1857 - his wife Eliza (nee Hanner) was still there at the time of the 1861 census but I don't know where she went next either.  I was very interested to hear about John's subsequent bigamous "career" and it certainly makes sense for him to be using his mother's maiden name as an alias.

Offline scruffypup

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Re: Joseph Rudd of Denton Norfolk 1800s
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 14 January 14 15:17 GMT (UK) »
Hi Mick

Many thanks for the information. I still haven't figured out why John named both himself and his son John Alexander Lince as there doesn't seem to be any record of any Alexander's in the Lince/Rudd family, and as far as I am aware he didn't have Alexander as his middle name at the time of his baptism in Denton.  Years ago somebody on one family history site told me John's father was Joseph and he was born in Norfolk, but that was the only information they gave me and I spent ages looking for Joseph Lince, I still would have been today if I hadn't come across the newpaper article and realised he was using his mothers maiden name and was really John Rudd, thankfully the article had the date of his original marriage and his wife's name so I was finally able to pin down John to the Rudd family.  I will send you a PM with my email address if you would like to compare the information we have between us on the Rudd/Lince families.

Regards
Julie