Death Dates for John Thomas and Sarah Thomas of Caerbegin farm five roads?

[roycymru]

Hi

I am hoping someone who might also have these in their family tree might be able to help. I am trying to find the death dates for John Thomas and Sarah Thomas (nee Edmunds) of Caerbegin farm, Five Roads, Llanelly. The last entry I have for them is in the 1901 census at Caerbegin (listed as ages 53 and 52, but were actually 58 (born 11 Jul 1842 William Stret llanely) and 56 (born 07 May 1844 at Caerbegin). With them in the1901 census were Jane Thomas (dau) 21, William Thomas (son) 20 and Hannah E Thomas (dau) 18. I have tried free BMD, but as their names are so common there are too many possible matches, so I am hoping someone with a family connection might know.

Thanks

Caerbegin Farm has had many variations in spelling, current version is Caerbigyn

[dianet3]

Hi,  very excited to see your message.  I am looking for the history of Caerbigyn Farm to see how to tie it to my family (Williams).  You have given me a large clue that an Edmunds family was living there in 1841.   I live in the States and visited the farm in April.  As far as I can tell, my Williams family were living in Llanelli in 1841 but were known as Williams Caerbigyn even then.  Do you have the parents of Sarah Edmunds Thomas?  I'll continue researching and will be glad to send you any information.

Did correspond with David Cooke, Senior Archivist, Carmarthenshire, 3 yrs. ago was told that records from 1833 showed farm was tenanted by Thomas Davies.  The tithe schedule did not show property owners, only tenants.

Thanks for your help.

[roycymru]

A quick reply. I am a member of Carmarthenshire-FHS and a lady put a query on there, from this it sounds as if she might be related to you. I will send you her e-mail address as a persnal message as it sounds as if you might have information to share: Her posting was:

My ggg grandfather was David WILLIAMS (b. About 1812 - d. 9 July 1871). On
21 Sep 1838, he married Justina FRANCIS.  From what I know (and have been
able to find out),  they lived on Ann Street in Wern and later moved to William St.

I recently found David WILLIAMS' obituary from 1871 and it states the
following:  Willams ---- July 9, Mr. David Williams (late of Caerbiggin), William  Street, Llanelly,  aged 59 years.  He was considered a good Christian, and much beloved  by all who knew him.

This is the very first time that I had ever heard of Caerbiggin...I'm  hoping that someone on the list might be able to tell me a bit more about this place.

I had kind of hit a brick wall with David Williams!  Upon finding this obituary, I'm hoping that now that I know he was from Caerbiggin, it might help smash through that wall!


Plus follow ups were:

From Me

I have you don't mind me E-Mailing you but I have an indirect link to your research as my Edmunds family owned Caerbygin farm from 1841 onwards and I replied to a previous post you did on Carm-FHS. You may have this information already but on searching for Caerbygin today I came across this information http://welshmormonhistory.org/index.php?/resources/view/601 which mentions David Williams, his family and Caerbygin farm. There are contact details:
 
"Feel free to copy the information on this site for your own personal use. All who have pictures, biographies, journals, or other information that ought to be on this site are invited to contact Ron Dennis at welshmormon@yahoo.com."
 
Perhaps if you contact Ron he might be able to put you in touch with whoever wrote the article and they in turn might be able to provide information on David pre-1841 (Note by me: She did but he didn't)

Her Reply was:

I've reread the piece written by Esther Jenkins Carpenter and I'm trying to figure out how my David Williams might tie in.  I am piecing together as much as I can about my David Williams.  In November, I was able to get a copy of his will (he died on 7 July 1871 at the age of 59).  Caerbygin isn't mentioned in the will at all, but it was definitely mentioned in his obituary.  That mention in the obituary was the first time that I had ever heard of Caerbygin.  In the article by Esther Carpenter, she mentions that her grandfather (David Williams) was married to Sarah Lodwick.  My David Williams was married to Justina Francis but since the article does mention that there were "brothers and cousins", I think that it's a pretty strong possibility that my David Williams of Caerbygin is related to her David Williams of Caerbygin!   

Thank you once again for letting me know about this find!  I really appreciate it! 

I also found this:

Also, found this http://templeready.com/Eng/Library/fhlcatalog/mainframeset.asp?display=titledetails&columns=undefined&titleno=332629&disp=Biographies+of+Evan+Jenkins+and+Ann+Will&first=undefined&last=undefined
which is apparently a book/document held on microfiche by the LDS where references are made to
 
re: Williams of Caerbigyn farm -- Letter of 31 December 1952, re: Joseph Williams, Caerbigyn -- Letter of 18 June 1953
 
which would be useful if you know someone who has access to LDS records or if you have an Church of LDS family history centre  near you you can visit to look it up. (Note by me: she han't had a chance to look this up yet)

Roy

[roycymru]

Hi

I have sent you the other ladies E-Mail address. Caerbygin (Cae'r biggin, Caerbigyn and other variants) was in the Edmund family from 1841 to 1871. It then came under the Thomas family (at least until 1911) as John Thomas married Sarah Edmund daughter of Richard Edmund and Margaret Griffiths, so no obvious link to Williams in my family line. I think the farm was acquired (started to be rented?) by the Edmunds sometime in the 1830's as I found a reference to it being sold in the Cambrian newspaper of 5 Nov 1831 (http://www2.swansea.gov.uk/_info/cambrian/?Lang=eng) and sent off for a copy of the article, which in full is:

To be sold by Private Contract:
 
The following eligible FARMS situate in the parish of Llanelly, in the county of Carmarthen:
 
No.1. LLWYNWHILWG  A. 28, R. 1, P.21
No.2 BRONDINI FAWR  A. 91, R. 1, P. 35
No.3 CAERBIGGIN        A. 45, R. 1, P.12
No.4 CROSS HANDS    A. 8, R. 0, P. 13
 
Together with several other small lots, forming altogether a desirable investment.
There are several veins of Excellent coal now open and in working under the property.
Application to be made to Mr. Jenkins, Solicitor Swansea; or to Mr. Benjamin Jones, Surveyor, Loughor, near Swansea; all letters to be post paid.
 
The consensus is that A. R. and P. stand for Acres, Rods and Poles/Perches

There is also a picture of Caerbigyn here http://www.geograph.org.uk/browse.php?p=185846


Roy

[roycymru]

A final bit of info:

Another bit of information I have found, from Carm-FHS, is that there is burial of a Rachel Jones (Llangendeirne Parish Records) on 27 Jun 1816, age 80, abode give as Caer Bygin Llanelly. From my own personal experience of family research I have seen mother in laws living with their son in law and daughter as they got older, therefore there is the possibility that if it was a "Mr." Williams living at Cearbigyn in 1816 his wife was a "Jones" and her mother was called Rachel Jones.

Roy

[roycymru]

In case anyone else is interested I did eventually find out the death dates of John and Sarah Thomas! They both died at Caerbigyn, John on 29 Dec 1917 and Sarah on 05 June 1927.

[roycymru]

Hi Dianet3

I would be very interested if you find out any more info about Caerbigyn pre 1841 and when exactly it came under the Edmunds. I have tried to send you a personal message with my E-Mail address but keep getting an error message about "max PM limit". Perhaps, if you don't mind, you could send me a personal message with yours and I can then reply directly to your "proper" E-Mail address.

Roy

[dianet3]

Roy,
Got your info. today forwarding the message re Thomas's at Caerbigyn Farm.   Can't tell you how excited I am to get all you sent.   This will certainly open more doors for research and hopefully finding the link to my Williams family.

Please keep in touch.    Diane

[dianet3]

Roy - remembered when we visited Caerbigyn in April we met the son-in-law of present owners.   He told us his family bought the old "Williams farm" across the lane in 1965 from a Jane Williams.  Could this farm actually be the one owned by my WIlliams family.

Thanks for your help,  Diane