Author Topic: Margaret V.Ritson-was she baptised or married in a religious ceremony?  (Read 1057 times)

Offline pirhana

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Margaret V.Ritson-was she baptised or married in a religious ceremony?
« on: Thursday 17 April 14 12:25 BST (UK) »
Margaret V. Ritson was born in 1901 ( possibly in Toxteth Park ), although her birth wasn't registered ( according to BMD ) until 1930 possibly when she got married to Richard Hill ( possibly also in Toxteth Park ) . I can't find any record via Familysearch of a baptism and in view of the fact that the birth doesn't appear to have been registered for 30 years(!) her parents may not have had her baptised. Also, short of sending for a copy of her marriage certificate I'm not sure whether her wedding was a civil or religious one. Any information/suggestions gratefully received.
Dinsdale ( North Yorkshire , Wolverhampton & North Wales) , Alderson ( North Yorkshire )Hill ( Toxteth ) , Morland ( North Yorkshire )  , Simpson ( Nathan- Lead miners North Yorkshire ), Walsh( Midlothian ), Webster ( Henry-Midlothian & Newcastle )

Offline SmallTownGirl

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Re: Margaret V.Ritson-was she baptised or married in a religious ceremony?
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 17 April 14 12:42 BST (UK) »
FreeBMD has this birth registration

Q1 1901, Liverpool Registration District
Vol 8b, page M30
Ritson, Margaret V

STG
Always looking for GOODWINS in Berkshire :)

Offline GrannyM

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Re: Margaret V.Ritson-was she baptised or married in a religious ceremony?
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 17 April 14 12:57 BST (UK) »
Lancashire BMD has this marriage

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1930
Surname   Forename(s)   Surname   Forename(s)    Church / Register Office   Registers At   Reference
RITSON   Margaret V   HILL   Richard H   Toxteth Park, St. Clement   Liverpool   2064TP/7/185


https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Toxteth_Park_St_Clement,_Lancashire
Rigby-Lathom, Freckleton,
Singleton-Fylde
Moss-Rufford
Johnson-Tarleton
Hull-Tarleton, Fylde
French-Abram,Rainford
Blake-Upton in Cheshire
Bolas-Shropshire
Butler- Greenhalgh, Lancs
Harrison - Garstang, Lancs

Offline jorose

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Re: Margaret V.Ritson-was she baptised or married in a religious ceremony?
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 17 April 14 13:42 BST (UK) »
The "M30" reference in 1901 does suggest that this birth was registered late (M30 = Mar 1930, the quarter when the late registration took place), and the reason may have been that they were getting things in order before the marriage.

There may be a baptism record. It isn't necessarily online, and it could have taken place anywhere up to right before the marriage.  There's no easy way for us to say.

If you search for "Margaret V Hughes" (using her mother's maiden name, there is both a possible original record for a Margaret Victoria b. Mar quarter 1901 and registered in West Derby district, as well as a cross-reference for Margaret V. Hughes "m1930" (e.g. March 1930 late registration).

There is as second child, Edith M Hughes, who similarly was registered in 1930 but was born in 1902 - similarly there is "Edith M Hughes" reference in 1902 cross-referencing 1930, and a separate Edith May Hughes reference in the same quarter in Toxeth Park district.

I can also see a possible marriage for some parents in 1915 (William Ritson/Margaret Hughes), which would suggest the following scenario to me:

William and Margaret have a long-term relationship as common law husband and wife with several kids.  For whatever reason (one or the other had a previous marriage, the first child came along before they got married and then it was easier to just pretend they were), they don't marry until 1915, but the kids are raised as Ritson.  However, at least Margaret and Edith have birth certificates that say they are "Hughes" and don't name their father.

Fast-forward to 1930. Although William and Margaret are now husband and wife, the two eldest daughters still are listed as "Hughes". Therefore, they apply to change these records. The births are re-registered under Hughes/Ritson in Liverpool district (which in the meantime has absorbed the West Derby and Toxeth Park districts where the births were originally registered).

This leaves a bunch of records which aren't clearly linked:
The original "Hughes" births in West Derby/Toxeth Park.
Hughes/Ritson births in Liverpool district in 1901/1902 which point to the 1930 registrations
The actual 1930 registrations.
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline SmallTownGirl

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Re: Margaret V.Ritson-was she baptised or married in a religious ceremony?
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 17 April 14 13:55 BST (UK) »
Oh well done, jorose!

There's a baptism at St Peter's, Liverpool on 4 Feb 1901 of a Margaret Victoria, b. 22 Jan 1901, d/o Margaret Hughes of Forbes Street.

STG
Always looking for GOODWINS in Berkshire :)

Offline stanmapstone

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Re: Margaret V.Ritson-was she baptised or married in a religious ceremony?
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 17 April 14 14:45 BST (UK) »

William and Margaret have a long-term relationship as common law husband and wife with several kids.

It is a widely held belief that there is such a thing as a common law wife or husband. In fact, there has been no such thing in England and Wales. Whether you live with your "partner", "cohabitee", "live-in-lover", "domestic associate" or "current companion" in the eyes of the law there is no special relationship and you are not equivalent to a husband or wife.

Stan
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Offline pirhana

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Re: Margaret V.Ritson-was she baptised or married in a religious ceremony?
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 17 April 14 16:09 BST (UK) »
To all who have responded what else can I say but many thanks!

Pirhana
Dinsdale ( North Yorkshire , Wolverhampton & North Wales) , Alderson ( North Yorkshire )Hill ( Toxteth ) , Morland ( North Yorkshire )  , Simpson ( Nathan- Lead miners North Yorkshire ), Walsh( Midlothian ), Webster ( Henry-Midlothian & Newcastle )